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+--- Thread: Common errors about Antiquity (/showthread.php?tid=14976)
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - M. Demetrius - 04-21-2009
Well, if one wanted to go in that Biblical direction, how about the oft-quoted "The lion shall lie down with the lamb", when it's the wolf that lies with the lamb, and the lion who eats straw. But that might be a totally different set of inaccurate quotes list.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 04-21-2009
I am still missing:
-The pyramids were built by slaves
-Pontius Pilatus hesitated to put Jesus on the cross
-The pyramids were built by aliens
-Egyptians had laser
-The pyramids were built according to the constellation of Orion
-The tomb of Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra has been found
-the metal mask fragment mr.Hawass found is part of the mask of Marcus Antonius
-The ark of the covenant is in Ethiopia
-The israelites have always lived in Israël
-Pompeii was largely evacuated when the vesuvius erupted
-the people found on the beaches of herculaneum were slaves
-Caesar wanted to be king
M.VIB.M.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - Jona Lendering - 04-21-2009
Quote:-The israelites have always lived in IsraëlBe careful; this is usually claimed by anti-Zionists, who want to stress the intrusiveness of Jewish settlement in the twentieth century. Not agreeing with Zionism is of course a respectable point of view, but especially the northern part of Palestine has always had a Jewish majority. Think only of the synagogues of Tiberias.
It is sad to see that historical truth is always one of the first victims in any conflict, and especially in the Middle East. Even serious scholars fall victim; I know someone who, believing he had read a good scholarly publication, has stated that there is no evidence that the Jewish Temple was on the Temple Mount, in spite of the fact that the Western Wall is still standing and we have two or three inscriptions from he Court of Gentiles. That the Temple was not on the Temple Mount is, of course, Intifada propaganda - and even a professor does not always recognize it for what it is.
I think part of the explanation is that scholarship is often "debunking" of myth, and Zionism is, indeed, founded on a use of the Bible that is not exactly according to the highest levels of critical scholarship. However, it does not follow from this that anything is untrue. The Temple was on the Temple Mount and there have always been Jews in Palestine.
It would indeed be interesting to devote a chapter to how uncritically Zionists have used the Bible and Flavius Josephus. Masada was already on my longlist. It is strange that it has become a symbol of Judaism, because it was not occupied by Jews, but by the sect of the Sicarians, which included non-Jews.
For a moment, I have considered to make the Jericho walls an item, but I do not want to hurt people's feelings unnecessarily, so I've decided to make a chapter on maximalism, an often misunderstood theoretical approach of the conflict between archaeology and written sources (=Bible); more here.
[NB: If one of the moderators thinks this post goes too far, please remove it.]
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - sonic - 04-21-2009
Quote:MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS:2rc6qt64 Wrote:-The israelites have always lived in IsraëlBe careful; this is usually claimed by anti-Zionists, who want to stress the intrusiveness of Jewish settlement in the twentieth century. Not agreeing with Zionism is of course a respectable point of view, but especially the northern part of Palestine has always had a Jewish majority. Think only of the synagogues of Tiberias.
It is sad to see that historical truth is always one of the first victims in any conflict, and especially in the Middle East. Even serious scholars fall victim; I know someone who, believing he had read a good scholarly publication, has stated that there is no evidence that the Jewish Temple was on the Temple Mount, in spite of the fact that the Western Wall is still standing and we have two or three inscriptions from he Court of Gentiles. That the Temple was not on the Temple Mount is, of course, Intifada propaganda - and even a professor does not always recognize it for what it is.
I think part of the explanation is that scholarship is often "debunking" of myth, and Zionism is, indeed, founded on a use of the Bible that is not exactly according to the highest levels of critical scholarship. However, it does not follow from this that anything is untrue. The Temple was on the Temple Mount and there have always been Jews in Palestine.
It would indeed be interesting to devote a chapter to how uncritically Zionists have used the Bible and Flavius Josephus. Masada was already on my longlist. It is strange that it has become a symbol of Judaism, because it was not occupied by Jews, but by the sect of the Sicarians, which included non-Jews.
For a moment, I have considered to make the Jericho walls an item, but I do not want to hurt people's feelings unnecessarily, so I've decided to make a chapter on maximalism, an often misunderstood theoretical approach of the conflict between archaeology and written sources (=Bible); more here.
[NB: If one of the moderators thinks this post goes too far, please remove it.]
Maybe you could achieve a balance if you also included the claim by some that the Israelites kicked the Palestinians out of their own country when David beat Goliath? I believe that the Peleset arrived in Palestine a few years after the Jews. Or is my memory playing tricks on me? :?
However, I have only added this as a possibility and I don't really want to be involved in a political/religious controversy, so I agree that if the moderators thinks these posts are too controversial, please remove them.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 04-21-2009
Personally i do not think my posting is controversial at all ... its about historical misconceptions.
The Israelite people and people of Kanaän were two different tribes who occupied what we now know as Israël. It has nothing to do with being jewish or not being Jewish...
Its not even political, though history has been abused for political means by many people in power, and throughout history.
I am speaking about the Archaeological evidence, compared with the statement in the bible when Adonai told the people of that tribe to go to the promised land and live in it.
If you say what you think i am saying, there have always been Jews in Palestine, you could then also try to prove to the world the Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal species of man were Jewish.
A historical misconception is a misconception, just like people saying the holocaust never happened, which in my views is one of the biggest misconceptions and thank god punishable by law these days.
M.VIB.M.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - Gorgon - 04-21-2009
Quote:A historical misconception is a misconception, just like people saying the holocaust never happened, which in my views is one of the biggest misconceptions and thank god punishable by law these days.
M.VIB.M.
Maybe in Germany, but as far as I'm aware is not punishable by law in other countries. Nazi iconography and spreading of Nazi philosophy, on the other hand, is banned in many countries.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 04-21-2009
You are mistaken about that, since European law has dictated that denying th eholocaust is punishable by law throughout Europe. What yo uare right about is the fact that contries themselves still can decide to prosecute or not.
M.VIB.M.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - Jona Lendering - 04-21-2009
Quote:Maybe you could achieve a balance if you also included the claim by some that the Israelites kicked the Palestinians out of their own country when David beat Goliath? I believe that the Peleset arrived in Palestine a few years after the Jews. Or is my memory playing tricks on me? :?We can not date the capture of the Land of Milk and Honey by the Hebrews (if it is a historical fact at all). The Peleset and the Denyen (= the tribe of Dan???) were indeed newcomers, settled in Kanaan by Ramses III. This much is certain: the ethnogenesis of the Hebrews took place in the confused age of the Sea People. What is also certain, is that it is extremely difficult to establish the historical facts.
Take, for instance, that report a year ago that the Palace of Solomo was found south of the Temple. I understand that they diggers have used a ceramics chronology that has been obsolete for almost thirty years. When this was pointed out, they said "we need to revise the pottery chronology, because we have found the Palace of Solomo". It sounds suspiciously like a circular argument. On the other hand, if they can find in that palace a cuneiform tablet that mentions Solomo, we may indeed be forced to reevaluate the chronology again.
So, it is complex. Which is why I will not deal with it in my book, which must be good-natured, a nice read, good for a smile. No real politics this time.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - Eleatic Guest - 04-21-2009
Quote:So, it is complex. Which is why I will not deal with it in my book, which must be good-natured, a nice read, good for a smile. No real politics this time.
Can you earn some money for a living from such a book, or is it all for personal fulfillment?
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 04-21-2009
Edited.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - Eleatic Guest - 04-21-2009
Quote:Can you earn some money for a living from such a book, or is it all for personal fulfillment?
Is one of the most moronic remarks i have read on this forum so far...
M.VIB.M.
Why?
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 04-21-2009
Because it seems to have a negative undertone or your wording would have been different.
But i might be mistaken...
If you replace personal fulfillment by fun, it sounds much nicer, at least to my untrained ears...
KM
Back on topic....
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - M. Demetrius - 04-21-2009
Well, everybody's ears are different; I didn't get that feeling from the question at all.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - Jona Lendering - 04-21-2009
Quote:Can you earn some money for a living from such a book, or is it all for personal fulfillment?Writing is fun. I can't live without the game that is called language. It's that simple. As it happens, I have a good publisher. My books on Alexander and daily life in ancient Rome will this summer be published in Turkish, and I hope to find an English publisher soon; after that, I may also make some money from it. The Dutch market is too small.
Re: Common errors about Antiquity - Eleatic Guest - 04-21-2009
Quote:Eleatic Guest:2b889ae2 Wrote:Can you earn some money for a living from such a book, or is it all for personal fulfillment?Writing is fun. I can't live without the game that is called language. It's that simple. As it happens, I have a good publisher. My books on Alexander and daily life in ancient Rome will this summer be published in Turkish, and I hope to find an English publisher soon; after that, I may also make some money from it. The Dutch market is too small.
Thanks for the response. I was actually asking because in recent time I have asked myself how it would be to publish something, whether one can expect some financial rewards or whether there is no money in that, or 'brotlose Kunst' as they say in Germany.
I have written some stuff on Wikipedia, as Jona knows, and it is still fun, but the personal reward beyond that is obviously close to zero. Wiki is a writing experience I would not like to miss in the future, and the audience you could reach is simply vast, but the fact that anything from you can be changed anytime by anyone makes it also difficult and sometimes outright frustrating. It would be nice to held sometime a piece of paper in your hand, which cannot be changed by an anonymous IP or some single students (actually the main contributors to WP) with too much time hand at their hand. :wink: