crocodile armour - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Roman Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Thread: crocodile armour (/showthread.php?tid=14706)

crocodile armour - Helveticus Palatinae - 02-25-2009 Hi everybody, I am not sure but I remember having read that there existed in roman times in egypt an armour or helmet in crocodile. Is that possible or do I mistaken? Greetings, Eckhard Re: crocodile armour - Aulus Perrinius - 02-25-2009 IIRC it was a ceremonial object Re: crocodile armour - Sallustius Metellus - 02-25-2009 There is a suit of crocodile skin in the British Muesum which is termed armor. It was found in Egypt and dates to the 3rd century AD. You can see a picture of it on the Museum website at http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/hi ... rmour.aspx The suit was never meant for warfare and was used in Egyptian rituals honoring the god whose appearance was the crocodile. Re: crocodile armour - Graham Sumner - 02-25-2009 Hello Eckhard There exists an example of complete body armour and helmet on display in the British Museum. I published a photograph and a reconstruction in 'Roman Army: Wars of the Empire'. The helmet and body armour are displayed together now but I do not know if they were from the same panoply originally. There also at least two other helmets made from crocodile skin which are I think now in Berlin. They have also been published. The 'armour' is often said to have belonged to a crocodile cult but I would have thought keeping more of a crocodile appearance would have made more sense if that was the case, rather than making a body suit which has seperate attached lappets and helmets which have neck guards and cheek pieces. In my opinion the dating of these items is more of a worry, as they appear a bit uncertain. A reconstruction of one of these crocodile armour suits appeared briefly in the film Cleopatra (1963) in the attack on the 'Turtle', sequence. Perhaps some people will see this as further proof that these things never existed! Graham. Re: crocodile armour - caiusbeerquitius - 02-25-2009 Yeah, usuall archaeologists who don´t know what to make of something apply a "cultic" meaning to objects... ^^ Here some pics I took in 2007. It was in summer and very bright, so the lighting conditions in there were so bad that my filter couldn´t do better than this... Anyone who´s been in the collection knows what I´m talking about... :wink: Re: crocodile armour - caiusbeerquitius - 02-25-2009 Re: crocodile armour - Helveticus Palatinae - 02-26-2009 Hi everybody, Thank you very much for your help Greetings, Eckhard Re: crocodile armour - Sallustius Metellus - 02-26-2009 The specimen in the British Museum was donated by a Mrs. Andrews who collected it at Manfalut, Egypt. This area is famous for its crocodile mummy catacombs and the cult dedicated to Sobek, the crocodile god. The specimen was found in the catacombs dedicated to the god along with many mummified crocodiles. Archaeologist or not, it seems a pretty good bet it was associated with the cult. Is there an unreported problem with the radiocarbon date placing this item in the 3rd century? Re: crocodile armour - john m roberts - 02-26-2009 Since we're speculating, we can have this both ways. Think of it: There's the Temple of Sobek, inside, a huge, lurid statue of the crocodile god, a procession of priests in crocodile costumes, complete with snouts, eyes and teeth. Flanking the entrance, guards in crocodile armor. Is that a Hollywood image or what? I remember first reading about Sobek in a short horror story by Robert Bloch whe I was a boy. Just thought I'd throw that in there. Re: crocodile armour - Dan Howard - 02-26-2009 Based on where it was found it is more likely that the suit was intended to be used in the Temple of Sobek rather than on the battlefield. If it was meant to be worn as armour then its use would be restricted to some sort of temple guard. I hate attributing any unusual item to "ceremonial" use but in this case it might actually be justified.