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+--- Thread: Pugio and Gladius Question (/showthread.php?tid=13969)
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Pugio and Gladius Question - Doc - 11-12-2008
Does anyone have any pictures of pugios that could be dated to the latter half of the first century AD.
The gladius question I have is about a pompeii gladius that Erik Konig reproduced. It is the one on his site where he has silver disks on the front of it. Does anyone have any information on this gladius (where it came from, were parts of it silvered etc.....)
Thanks
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-12-2008
Almost all the B pugios are dated in the second half of first century. There are those with only a frontal iron plate with silver inlay decoration.
Those sword was found in Pompei, and it's published in: S. Ortisi, Gladii aus Pompeji, Herculaneum und Stabiae. Germania 84, 2006, 369- 385, and in E. Künzl, Gladiusdekorationen der frühen Kaiserzeit : dynastische Legitimation, Victoria und aurea aetas. Jahrb. RGZM, 43, 1996, 386-474.
The disk are silvered (or tinned)
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - jvrjenivs - 11-12-2008
For those who want to go ask 'what are type B Pogiones'
Here an drawing on pugio's made by our fellow board member Paul/Crispvs for the Pugio database:
![[Image: Sheathdiagram.jpg]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/Crispvs/Sheathdiagram.jpg)
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Doc - 11-12-2008
Thanks for the information.
Thus type "B" pugiones only have a decorated iron front plate while type "A" have a decorated iron front plate and an iron back plate correct?
There is a RAT pugio database or is it still in the works?
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Peroni - 11-12-2008
Basically yes. The Type A sheaths are an all metal sheath, whereas the type B sheaths just have a metal front plate applied. (generally iron but one or two bronze plates have been found)
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Crispvs - 11-12-2008
The earliest type 'B' sheath I know of is the Velson sheath, which is datable to AD29 (off the top of my head) but I would agree that on the current evidence you would be more likely to see a type 'B' sheath in the latter half of the first century AD than a type 'A'. Incidentally, if you are looking to buy a pugio, avoid anything which has decorative plates riveted or soldered to the metal sheath. All decoration was inlaid into the sheath itself and there is no evidence for extra plates being attached. If you want a sheath which is specifically for the latter half of the first century you would also have to make sure it featured a style of decoration appropriate to that time, as decorative styles changed throughout the century.
A thing to watch would also be the actual handle of the dagger. Most of the daggers which can be dated to the latter half of the firsh century AD either have, or show evidence of having had, rod tangs, rather than the flat tangs used previously. Therefore, although the handle should be made in more or less the same way, it would be a good idea to thicken the outside edges of the organic layers of the handle so that they can tough each other and tightly hug the tang. Alternatively, the organic layers could be made as one thick piece which would be drilled for the tang to pass through before being peened over at the end. A few surviving tangs show evidence for this possibility.
In answer to you question on the pugio database, unfortunately it is still in the works. I have the necessary software to start building it but I cannot make it work on my current computer. To that end, the computer is away with someone at the moment who will hopefully be able to sort out the problem. Hopefully it will be a new and rapidly expanding thing of wonder in the new year. :wink:
Crispvs
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-12-2008
Said Crispivs: -
Quote:Incidentally, if you are looking to buy a pugio, avoid anything which has decorative plates riveted or soldered to the metal sheath. All decoration was inlaid into the sheath itself and there is no evidence for extra plates being attached.
For the type "A" sheath's?
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Peroni - 11-13-2008
For both A and B types.
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-13-2008
So what type is the 'silvered Deepeeka Pugio'?
:? ? ?
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - jvrjenivs - 11-13-2008
I would say the Deepeeka silver inlaid one is a B type.
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Peroni - 11-13-2008
Yes It's a B
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Crispvs - 11-13-2008
Byron,
The plate on the type 'B' sheath is the front plate, as detailed in my picture above. It is the metal component of the otherwise wood (and probably leather) sheath. What I meant was that no additional plates were added to the front plates of dagger sheaths. Sorry if my statement was confusing.
Crispvs
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-13-2008
Yes, ok, thanks Crispus!.....
so you have metal and wooden type 'B'Sheaths?
The wooden ones have the one plate on the front, but the metal version have inlay directly into the sheath? Is that correct?
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Crispvs - 11-13-2008
A type 'A' sheath has both a metal (in virtually all cases iron) front plate and back plate. The inlaid decoration in inlaid directly into the front plate. I would expect the sheath to be bilt around a wooden core.
A type 'B' sheath has only a metal front plate, which the decoration is inlaid direct into. The rest of the sheath is wooden and may have been covered in leather. The front plate of a type 'B' sheath is generally slightly narrower than the overall sheath and typically they feature four lugs which extend out to the edges of the overall sheath at the points where the hinge plates are inserted (as seen in my drawing above).
I hope this helps
Crispvs
Re: Pugio and Gladius Question - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-13-2008
Ok that clarifies what I thought!
The confusion is gone!
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