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+--- Thread: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. (/showthread.php?tid=13908)
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Doc - 11-03-2008
Does anyone have photos of the originals that Konig used for his reconstruction. I would like to see the parts that inidcate that it is thin silver wrapped around a brass plate.
Also the silver would not cause the price to be so high. I am quite sure it is the labor involved. Currently silver is between $9-10/ounce.
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - FAVENTIANVS - 11-03-2008
Everything is amazing in that web.
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Emmanuel - 11-03-2008
There is some photos of the discover of this miles of herculanum
The frog of the Belt
![[Image: frogsut5eu6.png]](http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6404/frogsut5eu6.png)
![[Image: w500.png]](http://g.imageshack.us/img444/frogsut5eu6.png/1/:3phy6uxx)
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Emmanuel - 11-03-2008
The squeleton of the miles
![[Image: pompeivue1800x600fn4ke2.jpg]](http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4161/pompeivue1800x600fn4ke2.jpg)
![[Image: w800.png]](http://g.imageshack.us/img224/pompeivue1800x600fn4ke2.jpg/1/:qih1ots3)
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Emmanuel - 11-03-2008
And the reconstitution of the Miles
![[Image: pompeivuededosdessinua6wb2.jpg]](http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1735/pompeivuededosdessinua6wb2.jpg)
![[Image: w582.png]](http://g.imageshack.us/img224/pompeivuededosdessinua6wb2.jpg/1/:2iiklo31)
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-03-2008
Is clearly evident that the central medallion is stamped or minted as a coin. A thin plate with that medallion is subjected to the backing with the lateral, upper and lower frames, decorated with repousse points. Seems that those frames are soldered to the silver medallion square. And probably to the brass/bronze plate too.
The silver are very thin, as you can see in the upper foto.
Impresionant pictures, Emmanuel. Thanks for share it.
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-03-2008
And if you look with atention the picture of the skeleton, you can see the two pugio frogs. There are very close one to the other, and in the middle is evident a great amount of iron corroded, that in my opinion is the remaining of a pugio. So, the famous Herculaneum soldier probably have a pugio, and is'nt the exception of the rule in a first century context.
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - caiusbeerquitius - 11-03-2008
Yup, you may be right. How many belt plates were there altogether?
Also interesting that he would have worn the pugio at the centre of his back. And also interesting that he wore arms within a city.
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-03-2008
I think almost 20 were founded. If i'm not wrong he wore 2 belts, one with the silver plates, and another with a concentric rings. The aprons terminals in form of lunulae was identical of those of Tekije.
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Tarbicus - 11-03-2008
Quote:Also interesting that he would have worn the pugio at the centre of his back.Could that be the result of much of the body's volume being lost to a superheated pyroclastic surge, thought to have knocked him and others on the beach face down (IIRC there is conjecture that he and others were blown off the harbour wall onto the beach)? The loss of body mass may have caused the frogs and plates at the sides to settle further towards the middle with gravity? If it wasn't, then I wonder if the simple decay of the corpse could give the same result?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroclastic_surge
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-03-2008
That doesn't look like stamped images, I would have thought with that kind of detail it is repouse work, but I guess anything is possible!
But looking at the photo's of Eriks belt, it looks as though he has followed the original technique quite well, the borders of the plates look separate to me, at least along the verticle borders. :?
Still, nice work. And wwhy does he have to be an ordinary miles?
He could well have been an nco. He was at least a craftsman, going by his tool bag.
This would be a source of income beyond that of the regular miles.
Unless he nicked (stole) the tools as well.
And I apologise to him for speaking ill of the dead, just trying to see beyond the obvious explanation. But if he was a theif, at least he was
an honest one. Not like scum who can't keep their hands off of other peoples property for no real reason other than a lack of gray matter. :evil:
Anyway, it is a very nice belt, and would not be out of place on an officers waist, any more than a silvered/tinned helmet would be out of place on a cavelryman, who would also be better paid!
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - caiusbeerquitius - 11-03-2008
Sure Jim, that´s possible. The position the buckle was found in might help.
Bet then: It looks like it´s really in the middle, it would be strange for a belt to move around that way, if it were fixed sort of tight around the waist.
César:
What´s it? Roughly 50 cm of plates, then? If he wore two belts, then the sword would have been suspended from the other belt with the concentric rings? Were the buckles found in the front?
Is the a publication of this guy? I know the one of the belt- but sthg consummate about the whole soldier?
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-03-2008
I thought about that too Jim, but more or less came to the same conclusion as Christian, but who knows?
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Tarbicus - 11-03-2008
Indeed, I'm only posing the possibility. But imagine one of your own plate belts buckled tightly to an inflated plastic bag, and lay it down on the ground. Deflate the bag and the belt has to drop somewhere due to gravity. However, because of the nature of the plates being rigid in a chain-like assembly, they'd possibly fall sideways.
However, I'm certainly not averse to the pugio being at the back. It'd be interesting to try for a change :wink: In combat it might also be easier to get to, away from the scutum.
It'd be hilarious if all of the sculptural representations put them at the hip simply to actually show them from the front, and confirm the deceased's identity as a soldier to the illiterate
Re: Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD. - Doc - 11-04-2008
Emmanuel and Cesar,
Are you suggesting that the belt was made of thin silver sheet not silvered brass? I think that it is silver but I am just getting your opinions
Also are you suggesting that the thin silver middle plate was stamped out and soldered to a brass backplate and afterwards, the repousse' borders were soldered over the thin silver plate that has the figure?