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+--- Thread: Roman gladius? (/showthread.php?tid=1379)
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Roman gladius? - Anonymous - 09-07-2004
I'm not a buyer, but I thought fellow-RATs might want to see this cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISA...2268120046<br>
I hadn't seen a bronze and bone combination handle before.<br>
A remarkable state of preservation? Your thoughts?<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>
wow, museum - Goffredo - 09-07-2004
I am impressed<br>
and confused. Why isn't such a nice piece in a museum?<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Re: wow, museum - Anonymous - 09-07-2004
Im impressed too. Isnt $1,000 dollars kind of cheap? I'd go for it (if I had the money and if I was sure it was a real specimen).<br>
Authentic samurai swords would go for $6,000 dollars, and these are newly made, not precious relics... <p></p><i></i>
Re: wow, museum - Anonymous - 09-07-2004
There was a very similar on on a while back touted as a Gladiators sword. This had a bronze pommel & guard but had no handle on place ..i think it was assumed as a bone one.<br>
<br>
There are pikkys in a thread somewhere ??<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: wow, museum - Crispvs - 09-08-2004
I've sent the seller a message asking if it has been published anywhere and recommending him to get it looked at, drawn and written up by the local archaeological society or museum. I have also asked if he can be sure it is genuine. Personally I am skeptical about this sword. I have never seen a Roman sword with solid (or plated for that matter) bronze/copper alloy hilt parts. It could well have come from North Africa prior to World War II but that does not necessarily stop it from possibly being a fake produced and aged deliberately to cater to an enthusiastic Western interest in antiquities, similar to those fakes which appear to emanate from Eastern Europe today from the same reason. Added to that, it would by now have had a further 60 to 70 years to pick up further signs of aging. I await the seller's reply very keenly.<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>
Gladius authenticity? - Anonymous - 09-08-2004
A second issue is the number of finger spaces on the hilt. On every picture or photo of a hilt that I've seen, there are four spaces- kinda makes anatomical sense. This has three.....<br>
See the Dorchester hilt at :-<br>
www.romanauxilia.com/Expl...ester4.htm<br>
Or this one from Colchester<br>
www.romanauxilia.com/Expl...tings1.htm<br>
There is one from the British museum that appears to have only three finger settings, but I am not sure if this is simply due to the way the display is assembled- I think this too may have four (?)<br>
www.romanauxilia.com/Expl...um/bm3.htm<br>
Unless it was made for a veteran missing one finger?<br>
<br>
Paulus<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
interesting - Anonymous - 09-08-2004
I too am skeptical.....<br>
<br>
The seller has not replied to my question on provenance either.<br>
<br>
A solid hilt of bronze does seem odd as does the sword shape. It is NOT a pompeii style at all.<br>
<br>
I wonder if its an old Movie or Set Prop............... <p></p><i></i>
Skeptical... - Matthew Amt - 09-08-2004
Avete!<br>
<br>
Yes, as I recall, the previous piece with solid bronze pommel and guard was also from North Africa, might even have been a similar story of its provenence. So this makes the second known unstratified sword from that era and area with such a construction, while no others that I know of have been published. If one turns up in a proper archeological context, of course, I'll be a lot more excited.<br>
<br>
Perhaps it's just my skepticism at work, but that blade looks an awful lot like a quama. And I notice interesting little theories in the description, such as this pommel and guard probably being gilded, while on most swords they were just wood sheathed in bronze. And the bending of the blade possibly being caused by a "blow from a heavier weapon." Hmm....<br>
<br>
Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>
Gladius - Anonymous - 09-09-2004
It looks supiciously like the three fingered British Museum piece to me.<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: Gladius authenticity? - venicone - 09-09-2004
Paulus<br>
<br>
That imagebase is a bit out of date - the new web address for it is:<br>
<br>
www.exploratio.org/image_...oratio.htm <p><span style="color:navy;font-family:verdana;font-size:medium;"><strong>Talking History Forum</strong></span></p><i></i>
If found before WWII, - Anonymous - 09-09-2004
why has it not shown up till now? I think that's very suspicious. I think that someone has a workshop somewhere.<br>
<br>
Also, here's another gladius for sale on ebay:<br>
<br>
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...38270&rd=1<br>
<br>
The corrosion on the blade is completely different. Makes me think that the first gladius has been artificially aged. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=neuralmancer>Neuralmancer</A> at: 9/9/04 4:47 pm<br></i>
Re: If found before WWII, - Lucius Aurelius Metellus - 09-09-2004
Both seem a bit suspicious to me. I've never seen a gladius like the second one...is it a real Roman sword style? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>
Gladius - Anonymous - 09-10-2004
The second sword certainly isn't a gladius, and very unlikely to be Roman either. It'd probably medieval with the cross-piece. The little loop down the side of the blade is to my knowledge not found on any other Roman sword, either archaeological or iconographic. Assuming that the loop is copper alloy, that would explain why it isn't as corroded as the rest of the sword, and from the close-up photos, it doesn't seem to have been altered recently. It could even by a C19th kaskara from Sudan, they still keep on springing up here and there.<br>
<br>
Celer. <p></p><i></i>
Re: Gladius - Lucius Aurelius Metellus - 09-10-2004
That's what I was thinking, too, Marcus. I didn't think the second one resembled a Roman sword at all, but then again, I'm no expert, either. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>
Another Gladius, must be a nest out there - raeticus - 09-10-2004
In case you have not had the fits from the other two, look at this "beauty":<br>
<br>
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...otohosting<br>
<br>
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3744765295&indexURL=2#ebayphotohosting <p></p><i></i>