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+--- Thread: Pugiones and Cingula (/showthread.php?tid=13578)
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Hadrianic impressioms - Paullus Scipio - 09-12-2008
Quote:Not me... Caballo/Paul B wrote that
Whoops! Appy....poly...logies!
Anyway, hope all goes well tomorrow....please make sure you give us all some feedback on tomorrow's event......
Re: Pugiones and Cingula - Crispvs - 09-12-2008
Regarding drawing a sword from a scabbard which is not secured by a belt in any way, I do it regularly and can catagorically state that it is really no harder than it is to draw from a scabbard which is belted. The only consideration is that the baldric should be reasonably short, but most evidence suggests that the real things were much shorter than many re-enactors' baldrics. Replacing the sword in the scabbard can sometimes be slightly more problematic as there is a tendency for the scabbard to move round slightly whilst running. A quick tug on the front of the baldric before replacing the sword normally does the trick and moves it back into position however.
I think that the difficulty with drawing a sword from an unbelted scabbard is a difficulty which exists purely in the minds of re-enactors who have not tried to follow what the evidence shows. No offence intended to anyone here by the way.
Crispvs
Re: Pugiones and Cingula - Magnus - 09-12-2008
How is it for general moving around...does your scabbard drift to your front like mine?
Re: Pugiones and Cingula - Crispvs - 09-15-2008
A little, but not in a way which impedes me or causes me any problems. I have to admit that to begin with it did take a week or two to get used to but I quickly became comfortable with it and it has caused not problems since. Most of the time I do not even remember that it is not fixed in place. However, to do this it is important to adjust the length of your baldric to something approximating the length suggested by the positions of sword pommels on tombstones. When I first tried to wear my sword unbelted, I had not shortened the baldric sufficiently and my sword jumped out of the scabbard while I was running and landed up on the ground. Since shortening the baldric to fit better with the available evidence this has not happened.
One objection which has been levelled at me is that sometimes I can not resheath my sword quite as quickly as those who have belted their swords. However, I believe that it is unlikely that a soldier in combat would be likely to wish to put his sword away in a hurry once he had drawn it. He would resheath it when he no longer needed to use it, which would presumably when he was out of immediate danger and therefore had a little more leisure to put his sword away again. As we are told that the Romans treated training as bloodless battles and battles as bloody training I see no reason to think that they would have needed or wanted their swords to be rigged up differently for everyday use.
Normally I can re-sheath my sword in about the same time as everybody else, but when it does take a little longer, I am sure the second or so delay would have made little difference in practice.
Crispvs
Re: Pugiones and Cingula - Gaius Julius Caesar - 09-15-2008
I was at the Hadrian exhibit at the BM this week, and noticed the soldiers in tunics who were taking the Debt records for burning on the relief that records this, were wearing belts with the cingulums worn very short, ie wrapped around the belts. But they were wearing cingulums.
I tend to agree with crispus on the resheathing idea though, as you would not be all expected to resheath on command, after a battle.... :roll: :lol:
Time would be needed to clean your weapons to start with..
Re: Pugiones and Cingula - Crispvs - 09-15-2008
Byron,
Thanks for that. I'm a bit confused though. When you say 'cingulum', which item of equipment are you referring to?
To the best of my understanding 'cingulum' is a later term for the military belt. At the time we represent the term seems to have been 'balteus'. We do not know what the straps attached to the front were called but the term usually used these days is 'apron'. If the relief you are talking about shows aprons which have definitely been wrapped around belts to shorten them I would be very keen to see a picture of them if you have one. Unfortunately I don't think I will get the chance to see the exhibition myself.
Crispvs
Re: Pugiones and Cingula - Gaius Julius Caesar - 09-15-2008
Unfortunately Crispus, as I am sure you are aware, the taking of pictures in the exhibition is prohibited. But I will keep an eye out to see if there
are any in the book.
I am surprised you are confused by my using the term cingulum to refer to the aprons, as it is the term I have found used very frequently to refer to the 'apron'.
Perhaps dinglie-danglie bits would be more accurrate? :wink: