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+--- Thread: Standing the heat with segmentata (/showthread.php?tid=13209)
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Standing the heat with segmentata - Manius Scipio - 07-22-2008
Was lorica segmentata used on campaigns in the desert? How the roman soldier could stand the heat of 38º celcius or worst with armor and helmet?
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - texascavtrooper - 07-23-2008
Well speaking from experience You have to stay hydrated all the time. I am in Iraq right now and the only way to keep from falling out is to drink lots of water. I would say that the Romans would have had to do the same. One way we try and keep cool is we pour water down our shirts and get soaked before we put on our body armor. We also get a cloth wet and put this on our heads when we have the chance to take our helmets off. So I would guess that they would have done some of the same things. Times and equipment have changed but the basic grunt/soldier has not.
Bryan
US Army Iraq
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Magnus - 07-23-2008
I've found the seggie not that bad....the armour tends to deflect a lot of the heat since it's somewhat shiny. But being padded by the subarmalis insultates against the hot weather somewhat.
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - sulla felix - 07-23-2008
Just recently I left my seg out in the sun here for a few hours in temperatures exceeding 45 degrees celsius (in the shade) and I just could not touch it. Any part of the seg that touched the bare skin would cause some serious burns I think, so insulation would be essential IMHO. Maybe, as some others have previously suggested, some kind of smock covered the seg to stop the metal elements absorbing too much heat from direct sunlight?
Plenty of evidence for seg use at Masada in Israel but I am unsure as to what the climate was like there 2000 ish years ago?
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Cipher - 07-23-2008
Quote:Just recently I left my seg out in the sun here for a few hours in temperatures exceeding 45 degrees celsius (in the shade) and I just could not touch it. Any part of the seg that touched the bare skin would cause some serious burns I think, so insulation would be essential IMHO. Maybe, as some others have previously suggested, some kind of smock covered the seg to stop the metal elements absorbing too much heat from direct sunlight?
Wouldn't a hamata/squamata face the exact same problem?
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - sulla felix - 07-23-2008
Tried that and it is nowhere near as bad as the seg. I guess it has to do with larger surface area of the seg plates?
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - caiusbeerquitius - 07-23-2008
I think it depends a lot on whether your seg is tinned or not. If tinned and polished, it will by far not get as hot.
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-23-2008
Well, metal left in the sun heats up. Period.
The hamata has a lot more ventilation....
But then there is mention of the leather armour covers by Joshephus?
White leather? Reflects the sunlight absorbs less heat...
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - sulla felix - 07-23-2008
Quote:I think it depends a lot on whether your seg is tinned or not. If tinned and polished, it will by far not get as hot.
You could be right mine is just plain old mild steel. Mind you I do not think any of the lorica fragments from Masada are tinned, but I'd have to check that.
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Eleatic Guest - 07-23-2008
Quote:Was lorica segmentata used on campaigns in the desert? How the roman soldier could stand the heat of 38º celcius or worst with armor and helmet?
There is a freely available scientific online article which addresses EXACTLY this question - in Spanish:
Una cuestión a debate: la lorica segmentata en las fronteras orientales del imperio romano
RESUMEN:
Quote:En el presente artÃculo se exponen, tras una profunda revisión de las evidencias y fuentes disponibles, toda una serie de argumentos que ponen de manifiesto la inadecuación de la coraza de placas articuladas de época romana, más conocida como lorica segmentata, a los teatros de operaciones de las fronteras orientales. A estos argumentos se une la ausencia casi total (con una sola excepción) de hallazgos de segmentata en estas provincias del Este mediterráneo, lo que, si bien no es un argumento decisivo, supone un hándicap importante de aquellas teorÃas que defienden un empleo masivo de este tipo de coraza a lo largo y ancho de todo el Imperio.
So the segmentata was basically absent at the eastern frontier.
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-23-2008
There are finds of segs at Masada, which is what the querie is refering to.
Can you Translate that for us Stefan?
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - sulla felix - 07-23-2008
Quote:So the segmentata was basically absent at the eastern frontier
I guess it depends what you define as the Eastern Frontier? The finds at Masada (the usual collection of tie loops, lobate hinges and buckle parts)indicate that segs were definitely in use, although the majority of armour finds are actually squamata scales. Segs are also not restricted to masada as there is evidence at other sites in Israel too.
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Casmin - 07-23-2008
As per texascavtrooper, hydration is the penultimate factor.
If the Romans adopted local attire to combat the weather as they did in other areas, I would make an uneducated guess and say they wore layers of clothing on top of their armor. Like I said I am not well read in the Roman military technicalities of the east so correct me if this was not the case. However, if the legions were dressed in stereotypical Trajan's column fashion, the 3rd degree burns from the sun would be quite debilitating to the army.
Concerning the effects of the heat and sun on the legionary, would it really matter if he were wearing a lorica or mail? I would think both would be comparably taxing. I've never worn a lorica but my hauberk is a magnet for temperature extremes.
Forgive me if this post was disjointed but I just woke up.
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Magnus - 07-23-2008
It would certainly be easy enough to throw an unbleached white/off white tunic over the seggie.
Re: Standing the heat with segmentata - Hibernicus - 07-23-2008
Our tinned segs do not heat up as fast as the untinned.
Having worn my seg for years in SCA combat
.. .. especially at Estrella War event now near Tucson... 90°F+ is easy.. 100°F+ is not unusual
... as well as a few other high heat events such a the Saga of the Isrealites TV show we did a few years ago. in the Anza-Borrego Desert Park...117°F
So as Bryan said.. hydration is the key... pluas natural fabric clothes and subarmalis to allow sweat to wick away... also having a helmet liner than allowed air to circulate....