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+--- Thread: A Roman Atlatl? (/showthread.php?tid=12997)
A Roman Atlatl? - `Paul - 06-27-2008
Was there ever an atlatl, that is, a spear thrower, in the Roman Legionaires panoply of weapons? I saw it mentioned on TV and they said it was possibly older than the bow and known to every civilisation in the world. This got me to thinking that the Legionaire really should have had one as the thrown Pilum was probably their favorite weapon and tactic; and the Romans were famous for studying their weaponry and never foregoing any advantage. I have never seen one mentioned, however. As it can increase the force and range of the thrown spear very substantially it seems mysterious to me why they wouldn't they have one if they did not.
Re: A Roman Atlatl? - Matthew Amt - 06-27-2008
Ave!
The atlatl is basically a stone age weapon. It was definitely used all over the world, and still is by some primitive cultures, but seems to have gone away wherever the bow came into use. So no, there is no evidence that I know of for its use by the Romans. One problem is that it takes two hands to use, so you couldn't carry a shield.
Vale,
Matthew
Roman Atlatl? - Paullus Scipio - 06-27-2008
...but they did use throwing loops on javelins and the like, called amentum
Re: A Roman Atlatl? - Robert - 06-29-2008
The atlatl as a missle weapon was superceded by the bow, although in the early stages of bows it was still in use as a hunting weapon for large game. Once you slot the spear, it's single handed like the sling.
The basic thing about a missle weapon is to deliver killing power. This is done both by impact (shock) and by cutting edge. Now, an atlatl gives a light spear with a stone spearhead a good length of throw, the one I have made has an effective range of about 40 to 50 meters. Of course, I can throw it much further, but it then lacks the knockdown power and penetration needed for say hunting. An arrow can be fitted with a head with a similar cutting surface, but being smaller, is easier to make and carry, and when shot by a reasonably trained archer, is much more accurate then the atlatl. Compare it to the accuracy of a sling, is about even. Even a novice with a bow will be more accurate! Being accurate with an atlatl takes a LOT of training. So, being practical, its archers over spearthrowers anyday.
For those interested in survival and bushcraft, it is however a very nice weapon, as it is much easier to make than a bow (half an hour ex. spears) and hunger should improve the aim :lol:
By the way, Paul, time to make a signature with your name in it, even if that is the same as you avitar name
Re: Roman Atlatl? - Epictetus - 10-20-2010
Quote:...but they did use throwing loops on javelins and the like, called amentum
Forgive the silly question, but what is this "amentum"?
Re: A Roman Atlatl? - Spurius Papirius Cursor - 10-20-2010
I remember reading that Thracian Peltasts used some sort of thong wrapped around their short spears to give them a wicked reach - so much so that hoplites had to intersperse their ranks with a lighter version of their type to nip out and deal with Peltast harassers. Is that thong the amentum?
I often wondered whether the Peltast might have been an inspiration for Rome's velites but I don't recall ever reading that velites used any form of throwing aid. (Mind you, I don't recall reading that they didn't :? either).
Cheers
Howard/SPC
Re: A Roman Atlatl? - Matthew Amt - 10-20-2010
Avete!
Yes, the amentum is the throwing loop, and you can see it used here:
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/31692
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/31436 (Also an atl-atl at the top of that page!)
Loops are seen on Roman weapons such as the auxiliary's lancea, and on many Greek illustrations. The Archaic Greek Chigi Vase shows hoplites carrying 2 spears, the shorter of which has a loop for throwing. But throwing loops are never seen on the pilum.
I just Googled up "javelin throwing loop" to find those sites, and haven't read through them. It looks like those loops are tied to the javelin shaft, which was certainly common, but it is also possible to have the loop separate, winding it onto the shaft in such a way that it stays with you when you throw. That presumably cuts down on drag, though it means a little more time to prep the next javelin.
Valete,
Matthew
Re: A Roman Atlatl? - Epictetus - 10-21-2010
Thanks! I've never heard of that before.
I suppose I could have made a search here at RAT too. :roll: