RomanArmyTalk
Persian heavy cavalry - Printable Version

+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Greek Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Persian heavy cavalry (/showthread.php?tid=12704)

Pages: 1 2 3


Persian heavy cavalry - etruschi - 05-20-2008

Found this gem on the net. If you see illustrations of these guys their legs are protected by the persian armoured saddle (parapleuridia) and their neck is protected by a high collar. This guy seems to have a collar and a neck protecting flap at the back. I was wondering if by using this flap he would have a complete or a semi -complete (half) collar?
Does anyone have good illustrations of persian heavy cavalry using the parapleuridia?
Greetings
Philip

[Image: b293dc87106awm0.th.jpg]


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - etruschi - 05-20-2008

You can now blow up the illustration now. Don't know which book it is. I might buy one also. I got the image from a russian site.
http://imperiall.1bb.ru/index.php?showtopic=969&st=0
Could you scan for me the illustrations of the montvert book. Especially the one wearing the persian armoured saddle I'm interested in.
Greetings
Philip


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - etruschi - 05-20-2008

I also think 4 is a Saka. I can't speak russian, so Icould not read the text. I thought the neck defence was rather steppish in style. Maybe the guy has borrowed a Persian helmet.
Greetings
philip


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - Artabanos - 05-21-2008

Nice picture.

Neck and throat guard were not only used by Scythians but also by Persians, it was typical for all Iranics.


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - Pericles of Rhodes - 05-21-2008

These images are very interesting. In both we see examples of scale plated collars for neck protection. Xenophon, in The Art of Horsemanship, sets down how a cavalryman should be armed and mentions an armoured collar in his recommendations –

'Next, as the neck is one of the vital parts, I say that a covering should be made for it rising out of the cuirass itself to fit the neck… if it is made as it should be, it will cover the rider’s face when he pleases as far as the nose.'

In the accompanying notes of my translation M.H Morgan writes that ‘it is probable that this piece was an Eastern device, suggested to Xenophon during his campaigns in Persia, and not generally adopted in Greece’

These collars must be what Xenopon is referring to and are indeed an Eastern/Persian armament. Assuming these Illustrations are taken from Persian archaeological evidence.

Xenophon also recommends –

'the newly invented piece of armour called the arm. It protects the shoulder, the arm, the elbow, and the part that holds the reins, and it can be extended or bent together.'

Surely this is illustrated by the bottom figure in your illustration, Gioi.

It looks very reminiscent of the manica (arm defence) later worn by Roman legionaries during the Dacian campaign (see picture below)

more on the roman manica - http://www.romanarmy.net/manica.htm


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - Marcvs75 - 05-22-2008

picture from the internet




Re: Persian heavy cavalry - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 05-22-2008

Dear Diary: Jackpot. Gigddy gigddy goo lol.

Has anybody browsed that entire threa? They have hundreads of great pictures of different eras. Not many romans though sadly, but still fascinating stuff!


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - Marcvs75 - 05-22-2008

Indeed, i also took a closer look to that Russian site. Looks like they posted all the illustrations from the Osprey books.


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - etruschi - 05-23-2008

Quote:These images are very interesting. In both we see examples of scale plated collars for neck protection. Xenophon, in The Art of Horsemanship, sets down how a cavalryman should be armed and mentions an armoured collar in his recommendations –

'Next, as the neck is one of the vital parts, I say that a covering should be made for it rising out of the cuirass itself to fit the neck… if it is made as it should be, it will cover the rider’s face when he pleases as far as the nose.'

In the accompanying notes of my translation M.H Morgan writes that ‘it is probable that this piece was an Eastern device, suggested to Xenophon during his campaigns in Persia, and not generally adopted in Greece’

These collars must be what Xenopon is referring to and are indeed an Eastern/Persian armament. Assuming these Illustrations are taken from Persian archaeological evidence.

Xenophon also recommends –

'the newly invented piece of armour called the arm. It protects the shoulder, the arm, the elbow, and the part that holds the reins, and it can be extended or bent together.'

Surely this is illustrated by the bottom figure in your illustration, Gioi.

It looks very reminiscent of the manica (arm defence) later worn by Roman legionaries during the Dacian campaign (see picture below)

more on the roman manica - http://www.romanarmy.net/manica.htm

Can we say the saka people used the parapleuridia? I still I'm cinvinced the Khumbuz-Tepe shows us a parapleuridia. The name Persian armoured saddle may be confusing in this case.
As long as they used the spear, for ease their stabbing arm must have been unprotected. I think when they began to use the kontos, they began to use tubular defences for both arms.
Does this mean that the very early Parthians made use of the parapleuridia? I myself tend to believe so.
Greetings
Philip


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - hoplite14gr - 05-23-2008

The excavations in Tadjikistan will probably change the vies that we have for persian armies. Problem is that there is a lot of staff published in not widly spoken languages.

Kind regards


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - sitalkes - 05-24-2008

Hi, there are Russian editions of many of the Osprey titles, they are produced in a magazine format though. Attached is a picture of a 3rd c. Persian Heavy cavalryman from a sacophagus in the Chanakkale Museum (it's a long way off the tourist track). I was very excited to find it as it is painted and very detailed. I wonder if you guys knew about it? I will post all the pictures of the sarcophagus soon. The description says he is fighting Greeks but I think he could just as easily be fighting Bithynians, Phyrgians, Mysians, or some other nearby Asiatics. There's also the faint possibily that this guy might be Bithynian, or a bigger chance he is satrap of Hellespontine Phyrgia, which included Bithynia. I have closeups and high resolution photos.


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - Artabanos - 05-24-2008

Yes some small photos of it were already posted here but it would be wonderful to have high resolution photos!


Is there any chance that someone could post a photo of the Khumbuz Tepe heavy cavalryman?


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - sitalkes - 05-24-2008

Quote:Yes some small photos of it were already posted here but it would be wonderful to have high resolution photos!

I thought I had uploaded the photos but anyway the first two are at http://www.flickr.com/photos/thracian/ along with sundry pictures from Adamclissi and other parts of Ancient Thrace


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - Sean Manning - 05-24-2008

Quote:Yes some small photos of it were already posted here but it would be wonderful to have high resolution photos!


Is there any chance that someone could post a photo of the Khumbuz Tepe heavy cavalryman?
Look here: Saka Heavy Cavalry.


Re: Persian heavy cavalry - Pericles of Rhodes - 05-24-2008

Quote: As long as they used the spear, for ease their stabbing arm must have been unprotected. I think when they began to use the kontos, they began to use tubular defences for both arms.
Hi Philip

Xenephon in The Art of Horsemanship, as quoted before, only recommends 'The Arm' for the left arm for, as you say, ease of stabbing/javelin throwing with the right. He does however recommend a bronze arm defence 'like a greave' for the right forearm, which I assume is the same as those in the museum at Olympia.

As you say, perhaps when using the kontos spear, which I believe was more of a lance, they could have worn 'The Arm' on both arms as you wouldn't have to move the right arm as much as if you where throwing a javelin or using a sword.

A photo of what looks like an original Persian neck guard, as mentioned above, from Giannis’ photobucket. Any information about this one Giannis??

[url:cdvunwz4]http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o118/kadoglou_gr/?action=view&current=dervenibpectoral.jpg[/url]