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+--- Thread: horse archer armour (/showthread.php?tid=1248)
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horse archer armour - Anonymous - 05-27-2004
Did Roman horse archers(1-3rd cen) wear armour? I was looking at some of the tomb stones on Jasper's site and could not determine. It would seem to me that they would NOT because of their nature as light horsemen killing at a distance. Although it would be nice to have a mail coat and helmet if enemy archers are shooting back!!!<br>
Thanks <p></p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Robert Vermaat - 05-27-2004
Afaik, there were no Roman horse-archers. Those who fought in the Roman army were mostly if not all mercenaries or federates.<br>
<br>
I think you're right about the armour. As a rule, horse-archers do not wear armour, besides a short mail short or a short scale corselet, and a light helmet. Any more would hinder their shooting.<br>
Later heavy armoured cavalry also had bows, but you should compare that with the modern machinegun on a tank. it served to keep infantry at a distance, while the main weapon was the heavy lance. More light and mobile horse-archers existed next to this heavy cavalry.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Anonymous - 05-27-2004
there are two gravestones from Mainz of Roman horse archers<br>
ala I Augusta Partorum et Arabrum sagittaria<br>
and?<br>
<br>
<br>
in ALA2<br>
<br>
there is Ala I Thracum veterana sagittariorum<br>
<p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vardulli>vardulli</A> at: 5/27/04 9:19 pm<br></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Praefectusclassis - 05-27-2004
Perhaps there were no separate horse archers, but certainly some soldiers had themselves depicted as such for one reason or another:<br>
- [url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/imagebase-show.asp?Selectie=3&Naaminvoer=&Inscrinvoer=&Litinvoer=&select1=Ala%20Afrorum&select2=Guard%20cavalryman&select3=Alexandria&select4=Portrait&veranderdatum=&ID=29" target="top]Flavius Proculs[/url], a singularis of the guard<br>
- [url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/IMAGEBASE-SHOW.asp?Selectie=6&Naaminvoer=&Inscrinvoer=&Litinvoer=&select1=Ala%20Afrorum&select2=Guard%20infantryman&select3=Alexandria&select4=Galloping%20rider&veranderdatum=&ID=12" target="top]Maris[/url]<br>
- [url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/IMAGEBASE-SHOW.asp?Selectie=6&Naaminvoer=&Inscrinvoer=&Litinvoer=&select1=Ala%20Afrorum&select2=Guard%20infantryman&select3=Alexandria&select4=Half-portrait&veranderdatum=&ID=112" target="top]Acrabanis[/url]<br>
The last two are both normal alares in title. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jasperoorthuys>Jasper Oorthuys</A> at: 5/27/04 9:47 pm<br></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Anonymous - 05-27-2004
notice the bow string on the flavius figure<br>
<br>
<br>
ouch! <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Praefectusclassis - 05-28-2004
Ooops Mark, you're quite right. Several alae are called sagittariorum! <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Uwe Bahr - 05-28-2004
Very interesting grave stones, especially the third one of Acrabanis. In the description is said that the sculpture is unique because the practice target is depicted on the right side of the stone. Furthermore, I think the style of illustrating the deceased as a half bust and in a smaller full figure representation, the smaller figure just riding before the bust, is unique too.<br>
<br>
I only knew of grave stones where the deceased is depicted in two different frameworks, e. g. in one frame as winning rider, full figure or bust, in another frame lying at his dead meal.<br>
<br>
Also - is my impression right, that Acrabanis has a small round shield at his (left?) arm?<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Praefectusclassis - 05-28-2004
No, there are more tombstones from the Balkan with a half figure and a depiction on them. They're not all in the imagebase yet though. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Anonymous - 05-28-2004
Uwe,<br>
<br>
I cant see the shield you mention .... which illustration is it in ?<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Praefectusclassis - 05-28-2004
Acrabanis is the first tombstone by alphabetical order in the imagebase. He's [url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/imagebase-show.asp" target="top]here[/url].<br>
In one of the detail pictures, there's indeed what seems to be a small roundel on his arm. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jasperoorthuys>Jasper Oorthuys</A> at: 5/28/04 8:39 am<br></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Uwe Bahr - 05-28-2004
Conal,<br>
<br>
on Acrabanis's depictions as a fully rider seems to be a round shield visible from the inside. I think one can even recognize a brim on the shield.<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Anonymous - 05-28-2004
Sorry for being dim but are you talking left or right arm ?<br>
<br>
This has got me all excited as I have been looking for an image of a shield attched to teh upper arm of an archer .... maybe I am too excited to see it properly ???!!!<br>
<br>
<br>
Conal <p></p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Uwe Bahr - 05-28-2004
Conal,<br>
<br>
no problem. Look above in Jasper's post 2102 to this topic, then click on <span style="text-decoration:underline">Acrabanis</span> and You will be lead to Jasper's "Imagebasis of Roman Military tumbstones" with the picture of Acrabanis. On the bottom are detail pictures. The fully shown rider in two of the detail pictures shows something what I think could be a cavalry archer's little round shield. It is the left arm seen from the body (left on the picture, it is not recognizable if it is the archer's left or right arm). Behind the upper arm appears the roundel, so we might look at the inside of the shield; IMHO there is even the brim of the shield visible.<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i></i>
Re: horse archer armour - Anonymous - 05-28-2004
refering to Jaspers comments on style<br>
<br>
<br>
it was something i noticed on my trip the Danubian area last year that the tombstones do have slightly differnt styling.<br>
<br>
i dont know if anyone has done a study of the style of tombstones?<br>
<br>
<br>
one thing i noted was the amount of 'tools' depicted on tombstones in that area <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>
horse archer - Anonymous - 05-28-2004
When I click on the smaller pics, nothing happens. Hmmm... <p></p><i></i>