+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Roman Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed (/showthread.php?tid=12365)
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-24-2008
I would think Yuri that until archaeology can absoloutely prove that Hadrians' Wall did not connect at the N' west and N' east angles of the fort, there is no reason why you should not put it there for all statements of it being north of the fort is speculation and no more.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 04-24-2008
Well, as my reading material is limited at the time being, and there is no consensus at whether it did or not connect, that would seem to be the case. The reconstruction will portray it as connecting to the wall.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - D B Campbell - 04-25-2008
Quote:... until archaeology can absoloutely prove that Hadrians' Wall did not connect at the N' west and N' east angles of the fort, there is no reason why you should not put it there for all statements of it being north of the fort is speculation and no more.Given scholarly opinion on the matter, it may be more accurate to say:
... until archaeology can absolutely prove that Hadrian's Wall did connect at the NW and NE angles of the fort, there is no reason to put it there, because all theories of it connecting are speculation and no more!
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 04-25-2008
*Sigh* .... I would have no problem not connecting it to the wall, but that seems to involve having a series of streams to the west of the fort, much like a delta, some much spoken curtain wall *somewhere* and this I know nothing of. Until someone can explain (or rather draw) this for me it will remain connected to the wall.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - Tiberius Clodius Corvinus - 04-25-2008
Hi Yuri,
great pictures on the site http://ancientvine.com/gallery.html (way cool). Are the landscapes constructed? Some look like. Which program do you use? I experiment sometimes with 3D Studio and tried once to create Castra Novaesia. But I wasn't so serious after as you and when my PC gave up, me too.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 04-25-2008
Quote:Hi Yuri,
great pictures on the site http://ancientvine.com/gallery.html (way cool). Are the landscapes constructed? Some look like. Which program do you use? I experiment sometimes with 3D Studio and tried once to create Castra Novaesia. But I wasn't so serious after as you and when my PC gave up, me too.
Hi Carsten,
The website and all the work on it are not mine, but Steve Haasis. I have comissioned him to reconstruct the fort of Pons Aelius, and this thread here is my attempt to get the information we need for the reconstruction.
The Pons Aelius article I wrotte (which this reconstruction will accompany it when it is done) can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pons_Aelius
Best Regards,
Yuri
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 04-25-2008
I would think that given modern scholarly opinion I would go with what has been said by antiquarians, for all we are getting from modern scholarly opinion is dispute about what was seen by people a couple of centuries ago. Hadrians' Wall has never been found in the City as yet, however so called modern scholars will have it that the fort is below the Wall infact one is saying the bridge is not where it was seen.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - mcbishop - 04-25-2008
Quote:*Sigh* .... I would have no problem not connecting it to the wall, but that seems to involve having a series of streams to the west of the fort, much like a delta, some much spoken curtain wall *somewhere* and this I know nothing of. Until someone can explain (or rather draw) this for me it will remain connected to the wall.
The relevant drawing is published in the AA volume I cited before.
Mike Bishop
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 04-25-2008
Quote:MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS:2qx44n3e Wrote:*Sigh* .... I would have no problem not connecting it to the wall, but that seems to involve having a series of streams to the west of the fort, much like a delta, some much spoken curtain wall *somewhere* and this I know nothing of. Until someone can explain (or rather draw) this for me it will remain connected to the wall.
The relevant drawing is published in the AA volume I cited before.
Mike Bishop
I know Mike, that is the problem. I have contacted the Newcastle Antiquarian Society and they have yet to get back to me.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-25-2008
I like Steves work, this has a definate future in a Game sense too, in my opinion! I recall he was working on something a while back..... :?
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - Ross Cowan - 04-25-2008
Quote: I have contacted the Newcastle Antiquarian Society and they have yet to get back to me.
Are you a student? If so, you should request the relevant vols through the Inter Library Loan system.
R
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 05-04-2008
Quote:MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS:3rzh22mw Wrote:I have contacted the Newcastle Antiquarian Society and they have yet to get back to me.
Are you a student? If so, you should request the relevant vols through the Inter Library Loan system.
R
Hi guys, sorry for the delay in replying. I am a student but at the momment I am a week away from exams and as such this may have to wait.
I have some other related questions I need to ask though.
Firstly, in a fort roughly 1.53 in size and housing a quingenary unit (480 infantry approx) how would the layout of the barracks be? I estimated about 6 barracks, then there is the commandants house, praetorium, granaries, latrines at the sides, etc.
I understand armamentarium and hospitals (vale - something) were building only found in Legionary fortresses and other selected forts?
Thanks for your help,
Best Regards,
Yuri
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 05-04-2008
Hi,
At the momment im looking at something like this (please ignore the geometrical discrepancies and stuff). For a small fort (1.53 acres) holding a quingenary unit (480 infantry) would there be anything missing?
The placement of the granries, commandants house and praetorium is supported by archaeological evidence. The rest is conjectural.
![[Image: plan1hb0.th.jpg]](http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plan1hb0.jpg:1ocmisgl)
EDIT: The new rather geometrically correct version looks quadratic rather than the more 'playing card spahed' usual roman fort. Is this a problem?
![[Image: plan2bn7.th.jpg]](http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plan2bn7.jpg:1ocmisgl)
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - PhilusEstilius - 05-05-2008
I think it would be very unlikely there would be a quinginary unit in a fort of this size, infact I would think that given the forts on Hadrians' Wall are from 3.5 to 5.0 acres on average the fort you mention maybe held about 150 to 200 at most. Im not familiar with the dimentions of the Pons Aelius fort but I think that maybe the lesser figure sounds more like it. The answer to the other question is the Praetorium is the commanders quarters, it would also have it's Principia or headquarters building with maybe a grannery. This would then only leave the areas to the north and south of these central buildings, so not a lot of room for barracks blocks maybe 200 to possibly 250 men at most.
Re: Newcastle (Pons Aelius) Bridge, Vallum and Fort (info needed - MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS - 05-05-2008
Hey Brian,
Thanks for your imput. The fort is roughly about 1.53 acres in size, and one of the units attested as being there was The Cohort of Ulpian Cugerni, Trajan's Own at the beginning of the third century. This particular unit was in Britain by 103 and was a quingenary unit (roughly around 500, but usually below 480) consisting of six centuries although there is doubt that it would have had the additional four cavalry troops of an equitate cohort.
The only problem I am having is that following the roman geometrical patterns it is difficult to position 6 barracks, 2 granaries, a co's house and a praetorium in the rectangular pattern the drawing D B Campbell showed us seems to provide.
As shown above, that configuration seems more quadratical. Unless of course there are any other buildings I should be aware of?