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Clothing Database - at least a start... - Julia Langobardia - 02-22-2008
I'll try to start a list of archeological finds of clothing from the roman empire here - please feel free to join, if you have information to share!
every item should be listed with the same information for convenience - I'd suggest this simple form to fill out: example in blue italics
[size=150:1i9jea80]clothing item Sagum [/size]
(short explanation rectangular woven cloak with fringes)
Name: Thorsbergmantel / Prachtmantel I
Found at: Thorsberg Bog near Suederbrarup, Northern Germany
Dated to: 4th century AD (method Radiocarbon dating??)
Size: 168cm x 236cm (reconstructed)
Material: sheepswool, off-white and two shades of blue, dyed with woad (analysis by Dr. Reinking & Dr. Siegmund)
Technical specifications: twill 2/2, checkered in two shades of blue
with tablet-woven borders, striped off-white and two shades of blue, all around: one short side with 9 tablets (starting border), one long side with 178 tablets, one long side with 9 tablets, one short side with 138 tablets (end border)
Published in:
Karl Schlabow: "Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland" Karl Wachholz Verlag, Neumünster 1976
Karl Schlabow: "Der Thorsberger Prachtmantel" Karl Wachholz Verlag, Neumünster 1982.
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Julia Langobardia - 02-22-2008
if this is the wrong place for this list or you have any ideas how this would work better, please let me know
edit: of course I can put a lot more information about each item into it - this is just to show the system...
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Senovara - 02-22-2008
hmm, I think this is a great idea.
Other Mods, what d'you think? Perhaps it can be a Sticky ... :?:
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Martin Moser - 02-22-2008
Hi Chris,
have you checked the Helmet Data Base on http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/ ?
@ all - might a setup like that perhaps be an option? Which reminds me I should contact Crispvs about the pugio data base :oops:
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Bran ap Maclou - 02-24-2008
Several museums have their own database and the MAK in Wien has more 1400 registered and available in line elements (available in english)
you have also the global egyptian museum on the net ...
Joconde database for french museums (about 500 pieces)
Another one for the royal belgian art museum...
Each time, you get several hundred elements, more often coptic, but available and detailed in half a dozen key sites.
So good idea to make a database but how many time will we need to get more entries than the current free public databases on the net ?
However if some countries have no global sites or for pieces in private collections, it would be really more profitable to focus our work on these pieces, particularly in the USA where a lot of pieces are presented on antiques sellers sites or in Italy with private foundations.
Bye,
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Julia Langobardia - 02-24-2008
there is no such database for the archaeological textiles in german Museums - so that was excactly where I wanted to start :wink:
the MAK online exhibition for example has a lot of beautiful fotos of coptic textiles - but no references to thread count or thread diameter, dyestuff etc.
you'll find these mentioned in the Clothing database if they are published anywhere...
I won't load up any fotos or drawings from the original sources here due to copyright, but you'll find a notice in the database if there are fotos or drawings in the sources mentioned. And of course for some finds I or someone else may have fotos taken at the place where they are exhibited....
I didn't intend to "invent the wheel again" (can one use this phrase in english too?) - just fill gaps...
@ Martin: I have - a database like this would be great
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Marcus Julius - 02-25-2008
Quote:Hi Chris,I agree. This would be a much better than having a multi page thread on the subject. It would make things easier to find for sure.
have you checked the Helmet Data Base on http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/ ?
@ all - might a setup like that perhaps be an option? Which reminds me I should contact Crispvs about the pugio data base :oops:
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Julia Langobardia - 03-19-2008
as questions about size and weaving of the Thorsberg sagum Prachtmatel I turned up in another discussion, I`m going to start with this one
let's see what we can make of this database to help everybody with their reconstrustions
[size=150:xg53jbpy]clothing item: Sagum[/size]
(rectangular woven cloak with fringes)
Name:
Thorsbergmantel / Prachtmantel I (after Schlabow)
Found at:
Thorsberg Bog near Suederbrarup, Northern Germany
Dated to:
4th century AD
Size:
168cm x 236cm (reconstructed) without the fringe, fringe 5cm
Material:
sheepswool, off-white and two shades of blue, dyed with woad (analysis by Dr. Reinking & Dr. Siegmund)
fabric: warp-thread z-spun, weft-thread s-spun, threads 1mm thick
tablet-woven borders: threads 0,2-0,3mm thick, z-spun, s-plyed into 0,5mm thick threads
Technical specifications:
twill 2/2, checkered in two shades of blue, one part of the pattern 10,12cm wide
with tablet-woven borders, striped off-white and two shades of blue, all around:
one short side (starting border) with 9 tablets (1,4cm wide)
one long side with 178 tablets (17cm wide)
one long side with 9 tablets (1,4cm wide)
one short side (end border) with 138 tablets (13cm wide)
fringe plated with 8 strands, 1,3cm plated, the rest plyed into 3 cords
Published in:
Karl Schlabow: "Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland" Karl Wachholz Verlag, Neumünster 1976
Karl Schlabow: "Der Thorsberger Prachtmantel" Karl Wachholz Verlag, Neumünster 1982.
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-19-2008
Yes, I agree totally a database along the lines of the helmet database would be good(also with patterns to make our own? :wink: )
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Julia Langobardia - 03-19-2008
this drawing is better, I think, showing the pattern of the fabric - but how can I replace the one obove with it? :oops:
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Julia Langobardia - 03-19-2008
[size=150:1mcatooq]clothing item: Sagum[/size]
(rectangular woven cloak with fringes)
Name:
Vehnemoormantel / Prachtmantel II (after Schlabow)
Found at:
Vehnemoor near Litteler Sand, Oldenburg, Northern Germany
Dated to:
3th / 4th century AD
Size:
aprox. 180cm x 280cm (only fragments preserved, size unknown) without the fringe, fringe 10cm
Material:
sheepswool, off-white, purple ("lila" in german - is that really purple??) and dark red (?)
fabric: warp-thread z-spun, weft-thread s-spun, threads 1mm thick
Technical specifications:
broken diamond twill, both warp and weft dyed purple
with tablet-woven borders, striped off-white, purple and dark red: 20 tablets purple, 26 stripes (3 tablets wide each) alternating off-white and dark red, 24 tablets purple
one short side (starting border) with 122 tablets (10cm wide), striped off-white, purple and dark red: 20 purple, 26 stripes (3 tablets wide each) alternating off-white and dark red, 24 purple
both long sides with 128 tablets (10cm wide), striped off-white, purple and dark red: 20 tablets purple, 28 stripes (3 tablets wide each) alternating off-white and dark red, 24 tablets purple
one short side (end border) with ?? tablets (??cm wide), striped off-white and dark red: middle part 34 stripes (3 tablets wide each) alternating off-white and dark red, rest not preserved
fringe plated with 8 strands, 1,3cm plated, the rest plyed into 3 cords
Published in:
Karl Schlabow: "Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland" Karl Wachholz Verlag, Neumünster 1976.
the size and colour of the sagum is only a reconstruction...
I have in mind that there was some new paper about the colour of the fabric, I`ll look it up in the universitiy library tonight :roll:
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-19-2008
You can probably edit the original post, deleteing the first image, and posting the new one in it's place Julia?
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - Julia Langobardia - 03-19-2008
ooops, was to stupid to use the "posted attachments"-button :oops:
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - caiusbeerquitius - 03-19-2008
Chris, I think this is a great idea! Keep up the good work, and: LAUDES!
Re: Clothing Database - at least a start... - John M McDermott - 03-19-2008
This is great. I appreciate the drawings.