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+--- Thread: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature (/showthread.php?tid=11799)
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Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Eleatic Guest - 02-15-2008
So far I have identified two sources:
The detailed account of the Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus (Res Gestae 26.10.15-19) (Kelly, Gavin (2004), “Ammianus and the Great Tsunamiâ€
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Dan Diffendale - 02-15-2008
Thucydides, 3.89.1-5
LXXXIX. The next summer the Peloponnesians and their allies set out to invade Attica under the command of Agis, son of Archidamus, and went as far as the Isthmus, but numerous earthquakes occurring, turned back again without the invasion taking place. [2] About the same time that these earthquakes were so common, the sea at Orobiae, in Euboea, retiring from the then line of coast, returned in a huge wave and invaded a great part of the town, and retreated leaving some of it still under water; so that what was once land is now sea; such of the inhabitants perishing as could not run up to the higher ground in time. [3] A similar inundation also occurred at Atalanta, the island off the Opuntian-Locrian coast, carrying away part of the Athenian fort and wrecking one of two ships which were drawn up on the beach. [4] At Peparethus also the sea retreated a little, without however any inundation following; and an earthquake threw down part of the wall, the town hall, and a few other buildings. [5] The cause, in my opinion, of this phenomenon must be sought in the earthquake. At the point where its shock has been the most violent the sea is driven back, and suddenly recoiling with redoubled force, causes the inundation. Without an earthquake I do not see how such an accident could happen.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... uc.+3.89.1
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Jona Lendering - 02-16-2008
Quote:Any other interesting references (also Byzantine, of course)?Not a written source, but still valid evidence: remains of the destruction of the 365 quake can be seen in Sabratha, Lepcis Magna, and Apollonia (all in Libya), and in the port of Alexandria. Everywhere, there are sunken buildings.
Sabratha: look at the "broken building" of the seaward baths.
Apollonia: look at the map, the absence of land behind the theater, and the last photo.
Finally, the Circus of Lepcis Magna is now impossibly close to the sea. I have better photos of that, but can not put them online right now.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Eleatic Guest - 02-18-2008
Went ahead and created over week-end two articles at WP:
[url:1wzeal6b]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/365_Crete_earthquake[/url]
[url:1wzeal6b]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/426_BC_Maliakos_Gulf_tsunami[/url]
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Robert Vermaat - 02-18-2008
A great effort - laudes to all - very interesting stuff.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Jona Lendering - 02-18-2008
Quote:Went ahead and created over week-end two articles at WP:Great job!
[url:6b3d6uz9]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/365_Crete_earthquake[/url]
[url:6b3d6uz9]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/426_BC_Maliakos_Gulf_tsunami[/url]
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Jona Lendering - 03-13-2008
A recent article in National Geographic: go here.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Eleatic Guest - 03-13-2008
Quote:A recent article in National Geographic: go here.
Probably the idea - and recognizably some contents - taken from my Wikipedia article which was featured on the main page as "Did you know?" three weeks ago. Not that I am a prophet by any means, but journos today take their stories or at least their inspiration from Wikipedia (without attributing it, of course). That's a sad fact, and that's why it is important to contribute there, if you wanna make an impact on other people's opinions.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Eleatic Guest - 03-13-2008
The Nature Geoscience article can be found here: http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop ... eo151.html
Addendum. Other recorded ancient tsunamis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_t ... .2C_Greece
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Jona Lendering - 03-13-2008
Quote:I am afraid you are very, very right.Jona Lendering:2ejhhccr Wrote:Probably the idea - and recognizably some contents - taken from my Wikipedia article which was featured on the main page as "Did you know?" three weeks ago. Not that I am a prophet by any means, but journos today take their stories or at least their inspiration from Wikipedia (without attributing it, of course). That's a sad fact, and that's why it is important to contribute there, if you wanna make an impact on other people's opinions.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Tarbicus - 03-13-2008
There was an interesting programme on telly tonight. It's alleged the Minoan civilisation was wiped out by a tsunami after a massive volcanic eruption. The theory is that was the basis for Plato's story of Atlantis.
Incidentally, the same programme theorised that the Biblical parting of the Red Sea during the Exodus was the same tsunami. The Red Sea wasn't the real location, but a marshland next to the Nile Delta, which apparently fits with the proper translation of the ancient text.
Two great stories from one event, perhaps.
More info HERE.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Robert Vermaat - 03-14-2008
Marshland is usually not becoming that much dryer when a tsunami pulls the water out sea. Does the eastern Mediterranean have much of a tidal zone?
Although I'm a Christian, I look at the Exodus like a look at Romulus & Remus; a foundation legend. Israeli archaeologists never found signs of a large new group that originated in Egypt (which is what the story claims after all), whereas more tyan enough traces are found of Kanaanite groups, who are all but neglected in the Bible. I've read about this problem before, and I am in favour of a possible conclusion, that this part of Israeli history was written by a dominant group that suppressed other origins.
So maybe there was no tsunami at all?
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Tarbicus - 03-14-2008
Quote:Marshland is usually not becoming that much dryer when a tsunami pulls the water out sea. Does the eastern Mediterranean have much of a tidal zone?It doesn't matter about tidal zones. Tsunamis have nothing to do with tides, they're the result of a massive displacement by undersea earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and landslides (and meteorites). The marsh in question extended into the Mediterranean (it's north of the Red Sea on the other side of the land mass) and the water came directly from the Med, the marsh populated with reeds. The name of the sea that Moses crossed in original Hebrew text is 'The Sea of Reeds', mistranslated at a later date. The dating of the volcanic eruption coincides faithfully with the latest estimates of the Exodus, and the time estimated (scientifically) for the water to return to the marsh is twenty minutes, the scale of the tsunami and drawback being so great after the eruption.
So maybe there was no tsunami at all?
If you still doubt it, there are two living survivors of a tsunami in Alaska in the 1950's, father and son. The wave was 500 metres high, and the cause was a landslide in a neighbouring part of the water system they were fishing in. This is all documented and confirmed by footage taken the next day.
The Boxing Day disaster a few years ago was a result of a gigantic and long overdue (therefore highly pressurised) displacement when a tectonic plate pushed 150 km of the neighbouring plate up by over 40 metres at twice the speed of a bullet. Landslides also break the sound barrier (the added momentum of the debris accelerates the material in front of it IIRC), as do pyrochlastic clouds and the debris they displace. You usually see them before you hear them.
The expected eruption in the Canary Islands is expected to cause the worst ever recorded disaster, heading across the Atlantic and engulfing the eastern seaboard of the USA up to 15 miles inland. The cause will be a gigantic landslide from the eruption as happened 3,500 years ago in the Med.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Jona Lendering - 03-14-2008
Quote:There was an interesting programme on telly tonight. It's alleged the Minoan civilisation was wiped out by a tsunami after a massive volcanic eruption. The theory is that was the basis for Plato's story of Atlantis.It's an old theory, advanced by the excavator of Thera and Jacques Cousteau. It is of course possible that memories of such an event have influenced later thought, but I am not very confident about it. There is about 1,200 years between the Thera eruption and Plato: it is like using Geoffrey of Monmouth to describe pre-Roman Britain - OK, Cymbeline/Cogidubnus did exist, but that's about all there is.
Quote:Incidentally, the same programme theorised that the Biblical parting of the Red Sea during the Exodus was the same tsunami. The Red Sea wasn't the real location, but a marshland next to the Nile Delta, which apparently fits with the proper translation of the ancient text.Main problem is that the Biblical parts about the Exodus are extremely young (before 330, but probably after 400; a recent theory even puts the composition of Genesis/Exodus after Berossus, who wrote in the 280s). If you read the Bible chronologically, you won't encounter Moses and the Exodus until very late.
One of the arguments for the Thera/Exodus connection is the column of fire/smoke that the Hebrews saw. If you accept the connection, it is obviously a reference to the volcano, but if you read the Bible with references to the Temple, you see it as a reference to the permanent sacrificial fire; if, on the other hand, you are influenced by Freud, you see the column as a phallus. All theories pass along the obvious point: the authors describe a miracle - so looking for a natural explanation is (in my opinion) the wrong approach.
Quote:The expected eruption in the Canary Islands is expected to cause the worst ever recorded disaster, heading across the Atlantic and engulfing the eastern seaboard of the USA up to 15 miles inland.I have read that too, but I also recall an article in which the author said that that island was more stable than had been assumed. Thank God for that.
Re: Tidal Waves or Tsunamis in Ancient Literature - Tarbicus - 03-14-2008
Quote:I have read that too, but I also recall an article in which the author said that that island was more stable than had been assumed. Thank God for that.Hmmm, not according to the geologists I've read in articles and seen on telly. In fact, stability could be the lull before the storm which makes a very dangerous volcano.