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+--- Thread: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration (/showthread.php?tid=11613)
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Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Caballo - 01-27-2008
This contemporary picture of a Late Roman soldier was new to me- from the Ambrosian Iliad from the fifth century, and depicting scenes from the Iliad- this one being Nestor and Patroclus. I really like the detail on the central soldier.
![[Image: AmbrosianIliadPict37NestorPatroclus.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/PaulHB/AmbrosianIliadPict37NestorPatroclus.jpg)
More here with higher resolution pictures http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... sian_Iliad
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Caballo - 01-27-2008
And a battle scene from the same source
![[Image: AmbrosianIliadPict20and21BattleScen.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/PaulHB/AmbrosianIliadPict20and21BattleScen.jpg)
And some senior officers (actually Ulysses and Diomedes)
![[Image: AmbrosianIliadPict34CaptureDolon.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/PaulHB/AmbrosianIliadPict34CaptureDolon.jpg)
And finally Achilles sacrificing- which looks (to me) as a pretty convincing picture of a Roman religious ceremony
![[Image: AmbrosianIliadPict47Achilles.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/PaulHB/AmbrosianIliadPict47Achilles.jpg)
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Robert Vermaat - 01-27-2008
Very nice images Paul! A nice link, too!
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Gaius - 01-27-2008
There is a rectangular scutum clearly visible in the second picture...¿¿??
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Mithras - 01-27-2008
Quote:There is a rectangular scutum clearly visible in the second picture...¿¿??
In a gladiator context perhaps, still used in the arena?
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Gaius - 01-27-2008
It is there in the middle of the battle scene, surrounded by the circular shields...a very curious image.
I thought that there was no gladiatorial games in the Fifth century...
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Robert Vermaat - 01-27-2008
Quote:It is there in the middle of the battle scene, surrounded by the circular shields...a very curious image.
I thougth that there was no gladiatorial games in the Fifth century...
Very curious indeed. the bared shoulder would indicate a gladiator rather than a legionary.. The groups in an odd lot anyway, ranging from hellenistic to late Roman..
Why would there not be gladiator fights in the 5th c.?
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Gaius - 01-27-2008
I am not sure about the exact date, but i think that gladiatorial fights were abolished in the IV C by Constantine, after the adoption of the Christianism as the offcial religion of the Empire.
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - M. Demetrius - 01-27-2008
In XXXIV, it looks like "cartoon dialog" bubbles over the heads of the people represented. I can't read what it says, but I guess it could be some descriptor or just conversation. How interesting that the convention was that old. Never thought about when that started.
Whaddya know?
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Gaius - 01-27-2008
The figures are paired and repeated, they are the same two characters...it is like a ancient comic, yeah...
)
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Carlton Bach - 01-27-2008
Quote:Gaius:3ptpdwkw Wrote:It is there in the middle of the battle scene, surrounded by the circular shields...a very curious image.
I thougth that there was no gladiatorial games in the Fifth century...
Very curious indeed. the bared shoulder would indicate a gladiator rather than a legionary.. The groups in an odd lot anyway, ranging from hellenistic to late Roman..
It looks more like the 'exomis' tunica to me. By the fifth century, the bare shoulder look and the rectangular scutum both would have become traditional imagery, so their inclusion into art isn't that surprising. If you look at some of the other gear, there also seem to be a fair share of hoplite aspides around.
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - caiusbeerquitius - 01-27-2008
Exactly. They even have shield bosses.
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - Carlton Bach - 01-27-2008
Quote:Exactly. They even have shield bosses.
Not all of them look like they do. At least to me.
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - john m roberts - 01-27-2008
Ther extreme righthand figure in the upper battle scene also has a rectangular scutum. Both figures with the scutum are portrayed in a conventionalized gladiator "on guard" stance. Perhaps they were copied from old lamps or monuments? Even after the abolition of the munera the old monuments must have been everywhere, since so many have survived to this day.
Re: Ambrosian Iliad- Late Roman soldier illustration - caiusbeerquitius - 01-27-2008
Quote:Not all of them look like they do. At least to me.Which one doesn´t?
hock: