+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: References & Reviews (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 (/showthread.php?tid=11525)
Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Peroni - 01-17-2008
New book from Oxbow....
http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ ... /MID/14354
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Virilis - 01-17-2008
Quote:In the end it is revealed that, contrary to most ways of seeing this crucial period, the Fall of the Roman Empire produced the Barbarian Migrations, not vice versa.
This is a quote from this Halsall`s book, ME LIKEEE :wink: !!!
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Nicholas Gaukroger - 01-17-2008
If you're interested in the period this book is a must read IMO.
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Chuck Russell - 01-17-2008
not another book to read ahhhhhhhhhh hehehe
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Robert Vermaat - 01-17-2008
Darn! I JUST ordered a few books from Oxbow and missed this one...
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Virilis - 01-17-2008
Quote:Darn! I JUST ordered a few books from Oxbow and missed this one...
I just ordered THIS ONE :wink: ! Seriously, this could be a refreshing read, maybe we don`t see the wood from the trees anymore. I have always felt that, for example, the tumultuos third century did have a profound and maybe a fatal effect on later roman empire. No matter how "trivial" and unfashionable this view is...
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Virilis - 01-24-2008
Got this book yesterday, can`t wait to start reading it :lol: ! The dedication of the author on the first pages was also funny:
For my friends, without whom this book would have been finished sooner
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Virilis - 02-05-2008
I have now read half of this book and I find it VERY interesting and really adding some fresh air to the field of the so-called "Fall of the Roman Empire Studies" :wink: ....
Here are some Halsall`s key points which I have found interesting
(remember, I find it interesting as a sociologist :wink: )
The germans and barbarians as ultimate "other / otherness". As a military phenomenon late roman army required a "good" enemy to keep it going and legitimize it`s existence as a tool against the "others" (germans). Halsall don`t use the sociological concept of "otherness" but I find it a handy tool in understanding the inner dynamism of the late roman army. Goths / germans could have been used as a handy concept to use for political ambitions as "terrorism" is used some times in our days.
Halsall also brings up an interesting point about the origins of the divison of the late roman army between the Comitatenses / Limitanei. He sees it rather as a way of the emperor to get a personal army (Comitatenses) at hand to use as a tool in securing the emperors ambitions and place in charge of things. This is understandable especially after the tumultuous 3th century. This doesn`t mean that the Comitatenses / Limitanei system didn`t have anything to do with the real-politiks of the german Limes, it just gives a deeper understanding of a complex phenomenon.
Halsall also brings up interestingly issues about the ethnicity and gender to play; this something I have not seen before in late roman studies.
In all, very interesting, can`t wait to finish this book. It really gives food for thought if one wants to REALLY understand the deeper dynamics of the fall of the western empire. In short, there were much more happening at the time than just movements of the armies and military strategies.
Ps, Halsall also gives a very good overview of the wide field of varying theories about the "fall"...
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2008
Good review - thanks Jyrki! I'll have to order it myself...
Re: Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West 376-568 - Virilis - 02-06-2008
Quote:Good review - thanks Jyrki! I'll have to order it myself...
Thanks Robert
!Halsall has some interesting points indeed. He has a very plausible theory about the origins of these "mythic" barbarian migrations. He sees the main cause being the internal weakness / turmoil of a late roman empire affecting in a bad way the symbiotic "client" system between the goths and the romans and in this way destroying this mutually useful bondage and leaving the gothic leaders without the beneficial effects of the roman political hierarchy.
Good example is Alaric, who is caught in between of the late roman power politics of the west and east and desperately (and eventually in vain) seeking a position in this collapsing structure...