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+--- Thread: Question for expert armourers! (/showthread.php?tid=10947)
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Question for expert armourers! - JVL - 11-12-2007
Salve,
I'd like to ask some things about my own attempt to recontruct a Newstead Lorica Segmentata. First is the authenticity: does it look authentic when you look at the pictures? I've used to its construction normal 1mm thick steel and 0.7mm brass for the hinges ect. The hinges are though to work! I'd like some comments on how to improve its looks and authenticity. My first armouring job so far, although I have worked with steel before this.
![[Image: 016750.jpg]](http://www.pienoismallit.net/media/kuvat/01/67/50/016750.jpg)
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Iagoba - 11-12-2007
Cant´s see the armour photo...
Only when I copy the link and paste in a new window...
Perhaps uploading it to Photobucket will work.
Nice one!
But I will round the corners, unless you want to harm yourself.Be careful with the edges, as they may cut... I cannot say more, I´m still learning...
You make me feel embarrassed...one 18 years old boy making his own segmentata and I had my best sword without scabard since four years ago... :oops:
Keep so interested!
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Magnus - 11-12-2007
There, i added the photo as an attachment too in case the link still doesn't work for people.
I think it looks fantastic so far. Just as Iagoba suggested, watch the pointy corners on the plates...they can poke and scratch you. Round them with a regular metal file. Also, the neck and collar areas...did you turn the metal under, or are you planning on lining that with brass tubing? Otherwise that may be uncomfortable too.
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Marcus Julius - 11-13-2007
Quote: I've used to its construction normal 1mm thick steel and 0.7mm brass for the hinges ect. The hinges are though to work!
As for the hinges being tough to work, that will turn out later to be a good thing. Harder to work usually means that they will hold up longer. So, you won't have to replace them as soon. Also, did you anneal them before you started working them? Usually not necessary to do while working the metal for a simple hinge barrel, but depending on how hard your sheet was, it might have helped to start with it.
Also, I see that you've flared the neck edges out. However, like Magnus says, you'll eventually want those completely turned over (either with a fold, or better with a roll). Same with your upper torso bands where they come under the arms.
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Tarbicus - 11-13-2007
Quote:Also, I see that you've flared the neck edges out. However, like Magnus says, you'll eventually want those completely turned over (either with a fold, or better with a roll). Same with your upper torso bands where they come under the arms.Here's a Matt Lukes Newstead
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... tead+lukes
Note it has brass edgings at the neck, based on actual finds. They're riveted on and might be easier.
You should also read Arik Greenberg's article: http://www.legionsix.org/Newstead%20article.htm
Re: Question for expert armourers! - JVL - 11-13-2007
I'd really like to do the brass lining for the neck area, but I don't know how...does anyone have a tutorial of some sort for this? Is it made the same way as the lining for the scutum? and I'll have to remember to make the edges round...!
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Icelandic - 11-14-2007
I'll second an askance on how to do the brass lining; once I get back to working on my seg after I get back from college, I ultimately wanted to line mine...I just don't know how, but would be very eager to learn
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Magnus - 11-14-2007
For straight parts, cutting strips of thin brass sheet will do the trick...just bend it around the edges and rivet or solder (i'm not sure which method is more correct).
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Marcus Julius - 11-14-2007
Quote:For straight parts, cutting strips of thin brass sheet will do the trick...just bend it around the edges and rivet or solder (i'm not sure which method is more correct).Looking at the pictures from Matt's construction in that link, I can see what appear to be rivets on the ends in the first two pictures.
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-14-2007
Brian Stobbs rivets edging on, but makes it flush so as to be practically invisible..
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Matt Lukes - 11-14-2007
That's just excellent for a first try Juuso- a LOT better than my first one :lol:
Quote:Also, I see that you've flared the neck edges out. However, like Magnus says, you'll eventually want those completely turned over (either with a fold, or better with a roll). Same with your upper torso bands where they come under the arms.
Actually no, quite a few artifacts show neck edges that were just flared- I know of only a very few that are both rolled and flared, and even one or two that are just rolled and not flared at all. It's a myth that the necklines were always rolled and flared, just like the idea that all the internal rivets had square roves, when in reality virtually none did- only the few rivets of the Corbridge upper back sometimes had them.
Quote:Note it has brass edgings at the neck, based on actual finds. They're riveted on and might be easier.
Are you sure Jim? I've never seen any neckline edge binding and so far as I know it's just a theoretical possibility. Someone proposed it for the Newstead because of the tiny hole at one end of the flared (but not rolled) neckline of the Newstead back plate, however without a corresponding one at the other end, it seems a less-likely purpose for the hole, and the front plate has none at all. The reasoning I recall we used for yours was that because of the amount of edge binding on helmets, and in other locations on the Stillfried Newstead girth section (under the arms instead of a rolled edge, and on the lower hem, instead of a flared edge), it was plausible that the neckline may sometimes have had it as well, but there wasn't any direct evidence for it.
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Matt Lukes - 11-14-2007
Quote:For straight parts, cutting strips of thin brass sheet will do the trick...just bend it around the edges and rivet or solder (i'm not sure which method is more correct).
I used rivets because on the Stillfried girth section, the edge bindings are riveted at each end, and on many other metal artifacts with edge binding, such as ocrae and other gladiator armors, rivets do secure it as well. The clear exception would be the Kalkreise breastplate that is suggested to have had edge binding because of solder remnants that would seem to show it had been present. Rivets also make more sense from a practical standpoint- the Romans didn't have propane torches, so soldering wasn't nearly so simple a thing to do as it is for us- rivets were far easier and thus I think rather more likely to have been the securing method of choice.
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Matt Lukes - 11-14-2007
Quote:I'll second an askance on how to do the brass lining; once I get back to working on my seg after I get back from college, I ultimately wanted to line mine...I just don't know how, but would be very eager to learn
Right, but just bear in mind that there's no evidence (at least that I've ever seen) for edge binding on Corbridge-type cuirasses.
It's not really hard, just kind of tedious work to make binding- cut a strip of brass, anneal it, draw a line down the center, make an initial bend with a pair of pliers, place the brass on a section of sheet metal and force the sides down to really fold it, then hammer against an anvil surface (just a piece of steel on a hard surface will do. Anneal again, and fit it to the edge you want to bind. This can be easy or hard depending on the type and magnitude of any curves and the width of the binding. Narrow binding curves easily, wider stuff is more difficult. It just involves a bunch of hammering, re-annealing, bending and hammering again though- the trick is to keep the ends tight to the piece you're binding and with short lengths, this can be a challenge.
One tip- if what you're binding has no or just a gentle curve, thinner brass is fine (say 0.015"), but if there are any significant curves, thicker metal is better since it can be forged more easily without just folding the way thin metal tends to.
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Marcus Julius - 11-17-2007
Quote:Actually no, quite a few artifacts show neck edges that were just flared- I know of only a very few that are both rolled and flared, and even one or two that are just rolled and not flared at all. It's a myth that the necklines were always rolled and flared, just like the idea that all the internal rivets had square roves, when in reality virtually none did- only the few rivets of the Corbridge upper back sometimes had them.
I'm sorry if it sounded like I was implying a roll with the flare. I meant to say turn that flare into a roll or fold it completely back. I would hate to try putting a role on a flare.
Re: Question for expert armourers! - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-17-2007
Well, mine has it, but I would imagine it is not an easy task, and most of the ones I have seen in re-enactment don't...... It certainly helps in the comfort zone..... 8)