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+--- Thread: Muscled thorax fastenings (/showthread.php?tid=10813)
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-31-2007
dimitri,I'm sure with an ypothorakio the thorax would fit pretty well.Linen or leather should be used.Personally i'm not sure an ypothorakio is that accurate for 5th-4th century cuirasses.In the photo you wear it naked,even with the leather lining and the chiton it should feel much better. By little suggestions,the breast could be hammered a little bit more to look a bit more extended than the muscles of the belly. And the waist line could curve a little bit outwards,it should make it more comfortable. I know you bsaid you're gonnal reshape it for better fit when it's almost finished. Well done.
Khaire
Giannis
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Dimitris - 10-31-2007
Thank you very much for your suggestions Gianni, that's about what I was thinking too! The line underneath the breast needs to be curved out a bit as well.
Was the leather lining glued on the thorax or stitched? Please tell me it can be glued, I wouldn't like to make small holes all around my thorax!
I'm sorry for asking so many questions but info on the Net seems very limited or at least I can't find much...
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Giannis K. Hoplite - 10-31-2007
Haha,sure,you can glue it.Thorakes with holes have been found but most of them do not have holes.
Asking as many questions as possible is the safest way to make it as accurate as possible-and this is what all of us are excited to see.And I see yours is fairly beautiful!
Khaire
Giannis
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - hoplite14gr - 10-31-2007
Ypothorakio is a hotly debated subject. In all propabilty both attached and separate versions existed and probably both linen and leather were used.
In a time where very few "state armouries" existed a lot was left to the individuals choice.
Kind regards
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Dimitris - 11-01-2007
Would the ypothorakio be something like the roman subarmalis, just a simple shirt of linen or leather with padded shoulders? I guess it is as I translate it in my mind.
Anyway I started the back plate today. Apparently the two plates don't fit together very well (some faults in the design) and the front plate needs some trimming, but thankfully it is easy to correct. Here are some pictures:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/ ... kwhole.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/ ... -backI.jpg
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - hoplite14gr - 11-02-2007
Athanasios Porporis had made a linen ypothorakio (subarmalis).
I think I have posted a pic of it in the Roman section.
If you can spare the the time do a search.
Or please contact the member "aitor iriarte".
Kind regards
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Giannis K. Hoplite - 11-02-2007
You may not have seen this kit
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... ss_172.jpg
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=70603
His ypothorakio is very nice,though I would like the pteryges to follow a bit the curve of the thorax. Athanasios has made a nice ypothorakio with linen pteryges for his "Philip's" cuirass.However,the function of an ypothorakio would not be just to bear the pteryges,but to make the cuirass fit better and protect from blows. So I'd make something stiff for that.
And remember,no pteryges to the shoulders (at least I don't recall any pictures from the late 5th-early 4th centuries)
The back plate looks really nice. Personally i would turn all the edges outwards,like you did in the neck,but it's fine what you did.
Khaire
Giannis
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - hoplite14gr - 11-02-2007
Ypothorakio images:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... s&start=40
Kind regards
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Giannis K. Hoplite - 11-02-2007
Personally I believe that the short,rounded pteryges shown in early statues are leather.Not necessarilly all the undergarment,as possibly the pteryges were attached to the cuirass.The later preryges are considerably longer,thinner and each pteryga overlaps the next one.This way you make thicker covering of the thighs and with les gaps.These also appear to have been much softer and were probably linen. That a thorax could have pteryges of different materials is justified by Xenophon in the "Horsemanship" It is worth to be noticed that he's not mentioning any ypothorakio,but only the pteryges!
It is strange that even the linothorakes in the middle 4th century had overlapping pteryges.
Dimitri,I would go for leather,but it is in your choice-either long and linen or short and leather.
Khaire
Gannis
PS.By "short" I mean covering the groin,like the linothorax,"long" I mean covering the thighs.
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Giannis K. Hoplite - 11-04-2007
![[Image: linenorleatherantpiusa.jpg]](http://www.congiano.com/Extras/Recreation/linenorleatherantpiusa.jpg)
![[Image: linenorleatherantpiusdet5a.jpg]](http://www.congiano.com/Extras/Recreation/linenorleatherantpiusdet5a.jpg)
From Anthony's site.I don't even know if the artist was sure what he was making,but this appears to be a roman subarmalis.
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-04-2007
I would agree wholeheartedly with that Giannis!
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - M. Demetrius - 11-04-2007
I agree, also, as do many others, that the pterugys were attached to the subarmalis, which may have been made from soft leather or heavy cloth.
The other camp says that not only is that not true, but that this sculpture basically proves that "all leather musculata were made soft, like the one in this sculpture".
That has been discussed extensively on RAT in times past, and the battle lines were pretty grim for some folks. Beware, men, you're right on the verge.
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Chris B - 11-06-2007
That armour looks really nice. Please post more pics when you finish it. I think you just set my next project for me. I still want a Manning Cuirass, but I may have to make one myself for education's sake. The mm converts to 16 gauge brass if I am not mistaken. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is worth the money for a 16 gauge sheet to attempt to make one. The worst that can happen is that I end up with a twisted mess of metal to dispose. How did you cut it out? Metal snips or saw? Also, does the metal bend easy enough to get the gentle bend of the overall cuirass by shaping it to your own body or do you have to hammer than out first? Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
I also agree with the observation Giannis. I intend to make my subarmor from linen for the body, padding, and straight pteryges on the shoulders and waist, but I am going to make the disk shaped ones out of leather and then sew them all together. It would just seem impractical to sew a circular seem when the straight flaps would have been the ones providing protection down the lower torso and thighs. I think the circular ones are more ornamental or aesthetics for the transition from the subarmor to the cuirass. Just my two cents.
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Dimitris - 11-06-2007
Yes the sheet is 16 gauge and It is certainly worth the cost. I will post pictures when it's over but I have very little free time so it may take me a while to finish.
I actually shaped the main curve over a trunk with a rubber mallet (It's in the picture with the tools on a previous post), but after I had shaped the muscles I was able to perfect the fit on my body with my hands.
About the subarmalis now; I have in mind a shirt following exactly the shape of the thorax with an outer layer made of thin calf leather, an inner of linen and some wool felt padding in between. The pteryges will be leather(perhaps from a bit thicker cow hide), single row and quite wide like the ones on that bronze spartan warrior statuette whose picture I can't find right now... :roll: It's the one found in Dodoni with the high crested helm, if anyone has a picture please post
How would the subarmalis be put on? Perhaps with an opening in the front or side fastened with buttons of some sort, or what?
Re: Muscled thorax fastenings - Tarbicus - 11-06-2007
Quote:an outer layer made of thin calf leather,It's been mentioned recently (Edge?) that pig breathes far more better and avoids the sweats IIRC. Something like that.