the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican

the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Printable Version

+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Roman Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican (/showthread.php?tid=10119)

Pages: 1 2

the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Mydes - 08-07-2007

:? hastati,the fresh recruits,principes,the veterans and the triarii,the old veterans of countless battles.
first the sent in th hastati to soften up the oppositian,then the principes,to wipe out even more,then the triarii,to finish them all off

FINIS

!!Bella horida bella!!

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Tarbicus - 08-07-2007

You forgot the Velites. :wink:

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Mydes - 08-07-2007

Quote:You forgot the Velites. :wink:

i know sad but true, you forgot the roman archers Smile

) )

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Tarbicus - 08-07-2007

You forgot the cavalry as well Tongue

You also forgot to add your real name to your signature (forum rule).

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Quintius Lucius Cato - 08-07-2007

I think he plays Rome Total War... bahaha, not that it's a bad game, with mods it can be turned into a pretty dam accurate and a good game Smile

. But yes if stripped down to the most simple aspects thats how one could assume thats how the Pre marian legion would fight

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Robert Vermaat - 08-09-2007

Ryan/Mydes,

You have now twice been asked to add your real name to your signature.

Also, you keep posting copied txt from RTW, which adds nothing to this forum. I you have nothing to add or ask, please refrain from posting this nonsense.

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - M. Demetrius - 08-10-2007

Velites.
What kind(s) of animal skins did they wear on their heads?

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Conan the Barbarian - 08-10-2007

Quote:[b][i][u] :? hastati,the fresh recruits,principes,the veterans and the triarii,the old veterans of countless battles.
first the sent in th hastati to soften up the oppositian,then the principes,to wipe out even more,then the triarii,to finish them all off

Many generals however used the three divisions in many other ways inorder to win a battle. Like having Triarii protect the flanks for example. Also if they had to turn to the triarii to finish off the enemy then they were in some dire circumstances.

Auxilia troops were atleast half of the Roman's forces aswell.

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Conan the Barbarian - 08-10-2007

Quote:Velites.
What kind(s) of animal skins did they wear on their heads?

Any

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Poftim - 08-10-2007

Quote:
M. Demetrius:ctgq2tg9 Wrote:Velites.
What kind(s) of animal skins did they wear on their heads?

Any

Where is that image from?

And I know this is a little off-topic, but is there more information about their shields? was it just a round hunk of wood with a handle on it? No boss?

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - Tarbicus - 08-10-2007

Quote:Velites.
What kind(s) of animal skins did they wear on their heads?

David, Polybius tells us that various skins were to be seen on the battlefield, so that individuals could be recognised after a battle by their officers.

'They also wear a plain helmet, and sometimes cover it with a wolf's skin or something similar both to protect and to act as a distinguishing mark by which their officers can recognize them and judge if they fight pluckily or not.'
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... us/6*.html

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - M. Demetrius - 08-10-2007

Thanks, y'all. I wonder the same thing about the shield. I have made a wooden shield with a handle, no boss, and it's really ungainly. The boss/cutout hand hole makes the shield more balanced. Would anybody really object if I put an umbo on a velite shield?

Republican Army - Paullus Scipio - 08-10-2007

Other than Polybius' description, we have very little to go on. That particular illustration is not a reconstruction I like.(polybius says wolfskin , not fur cap.)
I prefer those that show a full pelt in use, similar to later signifers.( bearing in mind that only some velites were so equipped.)
The shield should be like the signifer's parma too,and with a boss. Polybius actually refers to parma, and tells us it was three roman feet in diameter (34 inches). Their other weapons are a sword, and several javelins (hasta velitaris), with a wooden shaft "about two cubits in length ( 3 ft aprox) and about a finger's breadth in thickness; its head is a span (10 inches aprox)long, hammered out to such a fine point that it is necessarily bent by the first impact" i.e. a 'mini pilum'.
Hope all this is useful.

Re: the order of the pre-marian armies,or Republican - drsrob - 08-13-2007

Quote:
M. Demetrius:291qd4ux Wrote:Velites.
What kind(s) of animal skins did they wear on their heads?
David, Polybius tells us that various skins were to be seen on the battlefield, so that individuals could be recognised after a battle by their officers.

'They also wear a plain helmet, and sometimes cover it with a wolf's skin or something similar both to protect and to act as a distinguishing mark by which their officers can recognize them and judge if they fight pluckily or not.'
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... us/6*.html

It's generally assumed that the animal skin is meant for the centurions to judge the performance of individual velites. On reflection that interpretation seams extremely unlikely to me. Each centurion would have to judge 20 to 40 velites and distinguish them from about 80 other velites on the same frontage. In addition the centurions of the principes and triarii would not be able to see their velites at all.

We know from Livy (AUC 31.35 & 38.21) that the velites were atypical light infantry in that they were equipped and prepared to engage in close order combat. If battlelines intermingled it would be difficult to asses who was winning. If the Roman soldiers all wore some kind of animal skin on their helmet that would largely resolve the problem.

Velites - Paullus Scipio - 08-13-2007

Interesting thoughts, Rob, but perhaps we shouldn't dismiss Polybius entirely. After all some sort of 'officers' must have commanded the Velites in action, sometimes a long way in advance of the line.
Perhaps it is these officers, rather than the centurions to the rear that are meant. Smile

And recall that it is only "some", not all, who adopt this fashion.
Nevertheless, we need not quibble too much - suffice to say it was out of bravado, and for some sort of recognition purposes, that some young Bucks among the Velites wore animal skins. Similar 'fashions' occur in other cultures also ( e.g. African tribal warriors such as Masai and Zulu advertising their prowess as hunters by wearing animal skins). :wink: