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+--- Thread: Extraterrestrial Life (/showthread.php?tid=7485)
... - Goffredo - 11-28-2006
Well I read something about Alcubierre's very nice idea. I am impressed but it does have its very big problems. To work it need very exotic ingredients. And the exotica that scientists are maybe beginning to find evidence for may not be of the type needed for Alcubierre's mechanism to work. Alcubierre's idea seems to be well argued mathematically but that still does not make it physically true.
TRAVIS: Would you bet a million that in 200 years Alcubierre's mechanism will be used for FLT? Of course you are joking. What kind of a bet is that anyway. Rethorically spectacular but completely useless as none of us will be around to claim the bet or to say "I told you so!".
More seriously I contest reasoning by historical analogy. It suffers from circularity: one artfully selects examples/evidence that fits hit favorite scenario/explanation/whatever and systematically ignores counter-examples and contrary evidence. Regarding history one should make an honest listing of all those nice and cute, sometimes brilliant ideas that did not work simply because they were wrong. The more honest list would be far longer than those few cases used to artfully used to predict what the future holds for us.
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - Antonius Lucretius - 11-28-2006
Quote:Which is another reason for why I think there are no intelligent advanced species out there. They would have done it by now.
...Or maybe they just recently found out, after eons of painful research, that the Alcubierre theory don't work... :lol:
Quote:brilliant ideas that did not work simply because they were wrong.
..And that made me think of the brave but fruitless efforts of all those alchemists that tried to turn lead into gold.
Don't work either..
Re: ... - tlclark - 11-28-2006
Quote:Alcubierre's idea seems to be well argued mathematically but that still does not make it physically true.
kinda like string theory? :wink:
Side note: I do believe that there are institutional biases in science. The hard math geeks love string theory for example. A huge amount of effort and money has been poured into it without out much to show for it. There are thousands of ideas like Alcubierre's that merit as much attention but just don't seem to garner it because they seem too "fringe".
Quote:TRAVIS: Would you bet a million that in 200 years Alcubierre's mechanism will be used for FLT? Of course you are joking. What kind of a bet is that anyway. Rethorically spectacular but completely useless as none of us will be around to claim the bet or to say "I told you so!".
Oh really? Do you read Ray Kurzweil?
http://www.kurzweilai.net
THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR!!
Quote:Regarding history one should make an honest listing of all those nice and cute, sometimes brilliant ideas that did not work simply because they were wrong. The more honest list would be far longer than those few cases used to artfully used to predict what the future holds for us.
Or as James Lileks once put it, "Where are all those flying cars we were promised?"
To be fair however, no one promised us the Internet either and that turned out ok. To make the list TRULY fair, we have to add a list of all the things noboby predicted but still had a huge impact. We can never tell what the future holds for us, but I don't like taking counsel from the skeptics.
Alcubierre gives me hope and that's enough for now - but let's not segueway into a faith/reason debate again. :wink:
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS - 11-28-2006
Antonius wrote
Quote:..And that made me think of the brave but fruitless efforts of all those alchemists that tried to turn lead into gold.
Don't work either..
Just the real alchemists do or did not try to get the effective "metallic" gold, but the spiritual one...
Vale,
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - Tarbicus - 11-28-2006
Quote:THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR!!Now that's really scary, and was the subject of yet another Horizon recently. I have visions of thousands of Arnie's and Skynet. I don't even know if I should post this in case there's a load of lightning outside and Arnie turns up on my doorstep in a few minutes.
"Taaahbeecuus?"
"Nope, you've got the wrong house, mate."
:wink:
But it is seriously worrying :?
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - Kate Gilliver - 11-28-2006
What, you mean all those 'new worlds and new civilizations' in Star Trek weren't true?
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - Carus Andiae - 11-28-2006
Quote:What, you mean all those 'new worlds and new civilizations' in Star Trek weren't true?
No, they're not true.
Only the ones in Doctor Who are real.
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - Narukami - 11-29-2006
Quote:What, you mean all those 'new worlds and new civilizations' in Star Trek weren't true?
Sure, they were true,
A Long Time Ago
In A Galaxy
Far Far Away...
Narukami
what, me worry? - richsc - 11-29-2006
Quote:as none of us will be around to claim the bet
Not to worry: I'll hold the money and make sure you get it when you win.
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - richsc - 11-29-2006
Quote:real alchemists do or did not try to get the effective "metallic" goldI thought you could bombard lead and make a very expensive type of gold?
Quote: "Where are all those flying cars we were promised?"Hang on a minute: I have a deposit down on the four seater model! Moller Skycar
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - Comerus Gallus - 11-29-2006
:!:
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - M. Demetrius - 11-29-2006
Quote:We are talking about the possibility of intelligent life OFF this planet
Some days, when I listen to the news, I wonder about intelligent life on this planet.
:roll:
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - tlclark - 11-30-2006
Article on Stephen Hawking:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlene ... rss&rpc=22
Fav quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - Humans must colonize planets in other solar systems traveling there using "Star Trek"-style propulsion or face extinction, renowned British cosmologist Stephen Hawking said on Thursday.
However if you read further down he suggests that FTL travel is unlikely.
DARN!!
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-30-2006
which proves my point... no need to go to FTL.... just trying to reach it is important enough!
and colonizing other planets would mean first reverting money spent on weaponry and war to the space program... which is not likely to happen soon.......
M.VIB.M.
Re: Extraterrestrial Life - tlclark - 11-30-2006
Quote:which proves my point... no need to go to FTL.... just trying to reach it is important enough!
and colonizing other planets would mean first reverting money spent on weaponry and war to the space program... which is not likely to happen soon.......
M.VIB.M.
Totally agree with the first point, not sure about the second. Militarization (unfortunately) has a way of advancing technology not halting it. It would be far easier to do the Apollo program today for example, from tech created during the cold war, in fact the whole Apollo program essentially was a cold war military program.