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+--- Thread: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig (/showthread.php?tid=9897)
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Flavius Promotus - 07-30-2007
Allright fratres,
I have received an answer from Erik, and here it is:
[to be honest, I received Erik's answer already two days ago, but I was busy over the weekend
]'My helmets are driven out either from 1.5 mm sheet iron or from 2 mm bronze sheets. They are neither soldered nor welded. With iron helmets the material gets so compacted and densified that it doesn't get soft again, even after repeatedly annealing/tempering it.
On the one hand this makes the calotte extremely unsusceptible to any impacts, but on the other hand further work is made much more difficult.
Using brass or bronze is much easier since heating makes the material softer. The helmet with these eyebrowes [comment Florian: the reason for this dispute here] was the first helmet I made from iron, and it was driven by hand. It's much easier to do it [= insert eyebrows] with helmets that are already pressed out ['how to translate 'vorgedrueckt'???'] like they are made by others. In these cases the material has not been densified and is often very thin. My helmets are not likely to get dents fast, which also makes heavy padding on the inside unnecessary.
Furthermore, my helmets are oval (ca. 16 x 20 cm or 18 x 22 cm) which naturally reduces the space available for working inside.
I now have to build special tools for increased pressure when making the eyebrows. Such a tool is likely to have existed also in antiquitiy. AFAIK nobody has ever used this method before. Otherwise there wouldn't be such unobjective comments [comment Florian: I guess he refers to the 'too bad for so many bucks']. It is not only very difficult to work according to ancient methods, but also very time-consuming.'
Ok, so Erik's 'faulty eyebrows' have not been a result of sloppiness or of a lack of good images and sketches, but are the result of a serious technical problem encountered during a - as it seems - pretty authentic working method.
In short, what we have here is experimental archaeology at work
Lets hope that Erik will have success with making the relevant tools. I'm confident he will
:wink:
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 07-30-2007
Probably, i'm wrong, but i have read that the deepeeka's eyebrows are hand made.
Peroni, can you confirm that?
Probably, the secret is to work the helmet hot, and not cold and annealed.
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Marcus Mummius - 07-30-2007
The middle helmet in this picture was hand hammered from a single piece of iron sheet by one of my commilitones. The picture is a bit unclear but the eyebrows look quite good. They were done with a hammer and a chisel, working hot I think, as Avatianus suggested. They aren't as crisp/clean as the ones on the deepeeka helmets but very nice nonetheless. The helmet was the first real smithing work my friend ever did (Quintilianus is his RAT name)...
![[Image: 070630_LegXI_128.sized.jpg]](http://images.myphotoalbum.com/d/do/doe/doef/doefi/doefie/albums/album02/070630_LegXI_128.sized.jpg)
@Avatianus: the bowls of the deepeeka helmets are pressed so this makes the metal a lot less hard/compact than a hand hammered one. This means that it's easier to do the eybrows.
Vale,
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-30-2007
I would guess the eybrows on deepeeka's are hand made! At least the ones on my old Gallic 'I' are!
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Caballo - 07-30-2007
By coincidence, Peronis was talking about this over the weekend- apparently there is one Deepeeka guy who is the eyebrow specialist and makes them all!
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-30-2007
Well his work has improved since he did my 'I' :lol: :lol:
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Marcus Mummius - 07-30-2007
Quote:apparently there is one Deepeeka guy who is the eyebrow specialist and makes them all!
Is this him?
![[Image: 14_Brow_Area_Bushy_Eyebrows.jpg]](http://www.freewebs.com/bigtimepresents/14_Brow_Area_Bushy_Eyebrows.jpg)
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - sulla felix - 07-31-2007
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Flavius Promotus - 08-02-2007
Quote:I would guess the eybrows on deepeeka's are hand made!
Thyt may well be the case. But the calotte is not hand made, so it should be markedly easier to add the eyebrows. (although I guess the Deepeeka-eyebrow man still has a hard job!)
And please remember that the 'faulty' helmet we are discussing here was Erik's FIRST attempt. Just take a look at his second helmet and think of the helmets he will make in the future.
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Marcus Mummius - 08-02-2007
Marcus Mummius wrote:
Quote:the bowls of the deepeeka helmets are pressed so this makes the metal a lot less hard/compact than a hand hammered one. This means that it's easier to do the eybrows.
Flavius Promotus wrote:
Quote:But the calotte is not hand made, so it should be markedly easier to add the eyebrows.
:lol: almost like an echo :lol:
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - munazio planco - 08-02-2007
avete omnes
Erik konig is not only the best roman armourer in the world but is very,very onest man.
i wrote to me one mail in what he said that will make for me an other helm the same gallic f but whit good eyebrows.
and now one riflession..is really funny to compare the work of Erik whit the production of deepeeka...is like if I whant do compare between fiat punto and ferrari...please we should be a few more serius....
in in Italy we have the story of the fox and the grapes..
deepeeka do good products,some very good some orrible,some medium the price is for everybody and this is good.Not only more
erik konig do masterpieces
valete omnes
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Tarbicus - 08-02-2007
Quote:..is really funny to compare the work of Erik whit the production of deepeeka...is like if I whant do compare between fiat punto and ferrari...please we should be a few more serius....Never forget the truest description of common legionary equipment:
Designed by a genius, thrown together by a monkey. :wink:
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Flavius Promotus - 08-02-2007
Quote:deepeeka do good products,some very good some orrible,some medium the price is for everybody and this is good
I think most of us can subscribe to this :wink:
All of my helmets are from Deepeeka, and I'm happy with them. What I like even more is that Deepeeka are always trying to improve their products (see the Niedermoermter) while prices are kept from exploding (some of the stuff even gets cheaper in time).
But Munazio Planco is correct - we shouldn't compare apples and oranges. Erik Koenig's products are simply a higher league.
Quote:common legionary equipment: Designed by a genius
Tarbicus, I'd replace 'genius' with 'centuries of experience'
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - Gaius Julius Caesar - 08-02-2007
Quote:Quote:I would guess the eybrows on deepeeka's are hand made!
Thyt may well be the case. But the calotte is not hand made, so it should be markedly easier to add the eyebrows. (although I guess the Deepeeka-eyebrow man still has a hard job!)
And please remember that the 'faulty' helmet we are discussing here was Erik's FIRST attempt. Just take a look at his second helmet and think of the helmets he will make in the future.
Yes I think we agree there! But I also added that the ones on mine were hand made!
I would imagine his helmets all get better with each incarnation!
His work is certainly top class! 8)
Re: New Gallic Helmet from Erik and Ira Konig - munazio planco - 04-17-2008
avete Omnes
Erik konig after the observations about the not good dimension of the eyebrows did the remaking of my imperial gallic f. This time the helmet look perfect. I would like tell to everybody that erik konig is not only in my opinion the best artisan in the world for the roman equipment but is a man very,very onest too.Is difficult to find one artisan that whitout ask you money remeke from the begin one helm for you.
he did helm for me,for the centurion of my group (cohors II praetoria) one gallic D,for ours cornicen one gallic c and a muscolata for ours tribune.All this pieces are masterpieces and we are proud to have in ours group so many things from erik konig.
the reproductions of Erik konig are not "reproductions"but originals.
valete omnes