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+--- Thread: Subarmalis for lorica hamata (/showthread.php?tid=7447)
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-17-2006
I designed mine with the idea of being able to stand all day on a battle field, also to absorb impacts on the armour and distribute the force. An arrow will still hurt when it impacts armour, so common sense would imply that a good subarmalis would add to your protection,and allow you to march and fight in it. I would imagine that while a leather layer might improve waterproofing, any waterproofed cloth or linen would perform the same function. A leather layer on the shoulders to minimize wear is one idea I have been contemplating. I just take what looks like it has logic behind it and adapt it to my needs. Who is to say if it is all that great, but I would like to rely on it if I were a real life legionary!
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius_Calvus - 11-17-2006
Thus -- the reason I went with leather (pigskin).
Calvus
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius Julius Caesar - 11-17-2006
Whatever works for you!
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius_Calvus - 11-17-2006
Absolutely. I think that with everyone's great input that Saul has a super variety of ideas to pursue in finding what works for him.
Calvus
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - SOCL - 11-18-2006
Edge is quite right!
D Oh, and feel free to keep posting and discussing. Any feedback is still welcome!
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - John M McDermott - 11-18-2006
I have posted this before. It is hemp and breathes nicely. Hemp is a tough fabric, even more so than linen.
![[Image: Picture132.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/JohnMcDermott/Picture132.jpg)
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - M. Demetrius - 11-18-2006
You'll need a basic pattern, of course, to make the "tube" fit over your body. I'd suggest since you say you're new to clothing making, that you take an old T shirt (not too tight fitting), get someone to help you, and mark a line from the armpit to the bottom hem on both sides, and cut on the line. Cut the sleeves off. Then cut the shoulder seams, shoulder to neckto give you two pieces, front and back. You'll notice that the front neck hole goes lower than the back. This is a good thing.
You will probably want to make the neck hole a little larger, since the material you'll be using for your SUB won't stretch at the neck, and since you want it to be concealed under your maille. It might be enough just to cut the neck ring off the shirt pieces, especially in the front. (Remember that whatever color you choose, it will show through the holes in the rings).
Then you have to decide whether you want a front or back opening, a side opening (like a linothorax) , or two side openings. Some people say they "always/never used ties" others say "they always/never used buckles". AFAIK, and as some have already said, there are no surviving specimens. Some midieval garments of this type used ties, some buckles, some just overlapped. Who really knows? Make it so it pleases you AND whoever is in charge of the unit of Romans you're in. If people in other groups want to make them some other way, fine, let them.
Leather has the advantage of making it possible to put holes for lacing on pteruges if you want. In fact, you could just make a leather shirt later that fits over the cloth one you're making first. By the time you get that far, you'll have field tested the cloth model, and be ready to make your final design.
Hope that helps.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Robert - 11-20-2006
Slave Omnes!
I myself have gone for the Calvus option, constructing it as we speak. I would really appreciate the powerpoints! I'm taking pictures along the way, and if it works out, I'll post a How-to thread. I will not be sowing the padding onto the leather, trying to figure out an alternative way of detaching the padding to give it a wash. Will be using a quilted wool and linen combination like shown by John for the inner padding liner.
One thing that is often confusing the issue is that a lot is known from sculpture about the linothorax worn under a curass, but little of those worn under a hamata. Same goes for the pteruges discussions.
I tried an earlier post calling for help on my hamata and described the proposed design, opening on both sides but overlapping to give protection there, too. I hope Calvus has some buckling tips, but will experiment with them, as well.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius_Calvus - 11-20-2006
Robert,
I will be happy to send you the powerpoint diagram.
Send me a PM with your email address.
Salve
Calvus
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Martin Wallgren - 12-14-2006
The sub. is made as a roman sleveless tunic but quite short. On the sholders there is a dubbling of the thickness as I think you can see in the photo. Basic padding is from the inside out wool (thin), wool (thick about 3 mm), linnen, wool (thick) ,linnen, wool (thick) and last the thin wool again. The doubling is an extra padding of two layers of the thick wool with a linnen layer between them.
The tread I used was a linnen tread but a few of the knots are with a dogshair thread I experimented with. was quite good acctually (from a longhaird german sheapard/bordercollie cross). The petrigues is leather and so are the trimming.
The padding is held together with knots going trough the whole sub. dubbelstich in every knot making a small X on the frontside. The knots are made in linnentread.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 12-14-2006
DOGHAIR!
hock: How you have made it?
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Martin Wallgren - 12-14-2006
Well it is a fact that people has used a hair of a dog for a longtime, hehehe.... no but seriously it is a very good kind of "wool" and I just saved the hairs from my dog when I has had the oppertunity brushing him and then I spun a thread of it. (got a sister and a mom who are quite adept in woolmaking so I got a few hints from them on how to do it.) but to be fair it´s just about 5 feet of dogwoolstring in the sub.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 12-14-2006
Hopefully, your fellow Roman milites are not allergic to dogs as I am.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - M. Demetrius - 12-14-2006
Allergic to dog hair?
If they are, I guess they'll just have to keep their noses out of his subarmalis.
Wait, that sounds bad...uh....
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Chris B - 12-21-2006
So I have been reading multiple posts on the subarmalis throughout RAT and have a question. I have the material now and am trying to decide on exact composition of my piece. I like the basis makeup of John's and am definitely making a padded (quilted) main body with arm and waist pfuterages (Sp?). I think I am at least making two rows and maybe three each. Now the question. I have enough leather to have leather rows stitched into the hem of the body or I could go with linen flaps. I don't know as much as ANYONE here about Rome, but I am very well trained with many forms of weaponry and have used Bows (archery) and bladed weapons the majority of my life. I cannot imagine a linen only flap as offering much of ANY protection against a sharp blade (thrust or cut). I believe the leather would offer protection. Do people really only use linen or would it be plausible to sandwich a piece of leather between two linen pieces (kind of like making a row with open pockets that would be sealed once all rows were sewn together and then attached to the body? Oh, and BTW, it will be a sub for Lorica Segmentata. Any opinions or experiences with this. Thanks.