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+--- Thread: Testudo (/showthread.php?tid=10122)
Re: Testudo - Magnus - 08-15-2007
Yeah, the rocks would definately hurt. But, if the person in front of you is a bit taller, it's hard not to rest your shield on their head. Makes you wonder how they sorted out the ranks in terms of height, if at all.
Hey PMBardunias, can you add your real name to your signature? Thanks!
To answer your question, the diameter of the boss (the part that is domed) at least on my scutum, isn't a lot bigger than the hole that is cut out for the hand. BUT, having said that, because my hand is in the middle of this hole, I have a good 2-3 inches of clearance above and below my hand.
So as long as the shields were of equal size, then the person who was holding the shield on top would be ok. But, if his shield was a bit smaller, symetrical or not he may have a problem. I'm not sure we know how uniform the scuta were within a century/cohort. You would think things would work better if they were the same dimensions, but that may have not been the case. I guess they would have improvised and adapted as necessary.
Re: Testudo - PMBardunias - 08-15-2007
Quote:Hey PMBardunias, can you add your real name to your signature? Thanks!
I think I have done so successfully, we'll soon see. :lol:
I thank you all, but I think some of you are misunderstanding the formation I am describing. It is not the testudo you have pictured, with one shield held vertical and the other horizontal over head. It seems to consist of a line of at least two shields overlapping, both held vertically. The top resting on the boss beneath it. Elsewhere the author seems to describe a closed fomation where shields overlapped laterally shield edge to shield boss- which seem difficult with the more hemicylindrical scutii. This would look like a barrel tiled roof.
If any of you have a friend and a pair of scuttii, try this and see what happens.
Re: Testudo - Tarbicus - 08-15-2007
Quote:So as long as the shields were of equal size, then the person who was holding the shield on top would be ok. But, if his shield was a bit smaller, symetrical or not he may have a problem. I'm not sure we know how uniform the scuta were within a century/cohort.There's a primary reference to a legionary being either punished or castigated for having a different scutum to the rest of his unit, as he wouldn't be able to protect his neighbours. Now this whole discussion of the testudo puts a very focused reasoning behind the reaction to his shield.
Re: Testudo - Marcus Mummius - 08-15-2007
Quote:Magnus:3kmfoz4t Wrote:So as long as the shields were of equal size, then the person who was holding the shield on top would be ok. But, if his shield was a bit smaller, symetrical or not he may have a problem. I'm not sure we know how uniform the scuta were within a century/cohort.There's a primary reference to a legionary being either punished or castigated for having a different scutum to the rest of his unit, as he wouldn't be able to protect his neighbours. Now this whole discussion of the testudo puts a very focused reasoning behind the reaction to his shield.
What is the source for this Jim? Very interesting.
Re: Testudo - PMBardunias - 08-15-2007
Thanks, Jim. That's exactly why I brough this up. I didn't think anyone working on this had noticed the implication.
Re: Testudo - Tarbicus - 08-15-2007
It was around 100 BC, and the legionary's shield was too large. The fact that it was too large indicates it would have been fine for protecting the man to his left, so it being useless for a testudo is a tantalising possibility for the punishment.
I've mentioned it before (wrongly thinking he was executed). Perhaps Matt Amt can recall the episode now? :wink:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 1032#91032
Re: Testudo - Magnus - 08-15-2007
Cool info Jim. Makes sense.
Check your pm's...that point you raise makes me think of something else.
Re: Testudo - Crispvs - 08-16-2007
I think the formation which was being asked about was an anti-archery formation rather than what we normally think of as a testudo.
Crispvs
Re: Testudo - Magnus - 08-17-2007
That or wasn't it that anti-cavalry one similar?
Testudo - Paullus Scipio - 08-17-2007
Quote:It was around 100 BC, and the legionary's shield was too large. The fact that it was too large indicates it would have been fine for protecting the man to his left, so it being useless for a testudo is a tantalising possibility for the punishment
I suspect this is the apocryphal story told of Scipio Africanus"noticing the shield of a certain soldier rather elaborately decorated (told elsewhere as over-sized shield) rebuked him, saying he didn't wonder the man had adorned it with such care( or it was over-sized), seeing that he put more trust in it than his sword." Frontinus, Stratagems IV.1.5 - the tale is also referred to by Plutarch, Livy and Polyaenus.
