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The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Printable Version

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Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - FAVENTIANVS - 10-29-2006

Quote:I can't visualize it yet... :? Any image?
I'm sorry, I didn't think about that, by hand-trebuchet I thought you were talking about a portable one, not a hands-pulled one!
Silly me... :oops: :lol:

[Image: idiota.jpg]

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - GALLA PLACIDIA - 10-31-2006

Does some reconstructed piece exist?

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Peter Raftos - 10-31-2006

Many have been made by living history groups. The Grey Company in Australia have made a range of them

[url:2vi4l5bz]http://members.iinet.com.au/~rmine/Greycos/greytrebs.html[/url]

Also the New Varangian Guard in Australia have also experimented with one

[url:2vi4l5bz]http://www.angelfire.com/wy/svenskildbiter/trebs/trebuchet.html[/url]

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Endre Fodstad - 11-01-2006

Here is a link to an extensive semi-scholary article from the danish Medieval Centre: http://www.middelaldercentret.dk/acta.html

The article talks about traction artillery in general, and has a number of interesting illustrations and links to pictures, including a chinese miniature from 1726!

[edit] And they found an intact one when they pulled down the old church at Liebenmuhl in East Prussia in 1890! And the workmen burned it for firewood! Damn the Hun!

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Ildar - 11-08-2006

Quote:Alan Wilkins (JRMES II, 2000, page 91) mentions the survival of the cheiroballistra into Byzantine times. Here he quotes the use of the word cheirotoxobolistron from De administrando imperio of the tenth century.

You may haven't understood. This part of the treatise concerns events of Diocletianus, Constantius Chlorus and Constantinus the Great age, which had no relation to 10th century.

Alan Wilkins didn't verify the information he received from his Greek colleague. Τοξο isn't present in the original. The word χειροβολίστρας found four times there and the word βαλλιστρων - once. For more details see here.

[quote]Nikephoros II Phokas (963–969), dating from ca. 965, recommends the use of “handtrebuchetsâ€

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - caiusbeerquitius - 11-09-2006

I own facsimile from the Crusader-Bible (Louis the Saint), Pierpoint Morgan library, new York, MS M.638 et al. On folio 23 verso is a nice battle scene, which fits neatly into this thread:
[Image: DSC03016.jpg]

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Eleatic Guest - 11-18-2006

I think I got it.

The Cheiromangana is probably nothing but an improvement of the good, old Fustibalus (in German: Stabschleuder) of the days of Vegetius: A vertical pole is placed in the ground on which another, horizontal, pole is placed, with a sling at one end and the shooter at the other, the whole mechanism working according to the lever principle, just like a trebuchet, but only with a single operator.

With the pole in the ground pivoting around its axle, the shooter can cover a field of 360 degrees.

Chevedden also mentions further down in his article that the cheiromangana was operated by just one man:

[quote]The pole-framed trebuchet was identified as an alakation and a lithobolos, while the pole-framed “hand-trebuchet,â€

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Eleatic Guest - 08-02-2008

Perhaps we can merge this thread to Byzantine Weapons and Warfare. So that the weapon does not become lost for a second tme. Big Grin

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Casmin - 08-02-2008

There were two styles of traction trebuchet. One where the ropes hung down so that the men who operated it stood one in front of the other. Each rope would have been longer or shorter depending on how far the trebuchet arm was from the man pulling his respective rope.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~rmine/pics ... /axesm.gif

In the other style, the ropes rested perpendicular to the trebuchet so the men operating it had to stand shoulder to shoulder.

http://www.aemma.org/training/trebuchet ... buchet.jpg

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Gaius Julius Caesar - 08-02-2008

is the first one not the same, just draw out of perspective, like much of the ancient art was?

Re: The Cheiromangana (Hand-Trebuchet) - Casmin - 08-03-2008

Quote:is the first one not the same, just draw out of perspective, like much of the ancient art was?

No they're different. Big Grin wink: There's an informative site I found while trying to get pics. http://members.iinet.net.au/~rmine/htt/ttspot.html It describes the two types as "Rake" and "Axe". Scroll down about half way on the page to see the respective pics.