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+--- Thread: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) (/showthread.php?tid=14201)
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - Steakslim - 12-15-2008
I mean in disguise mabye as a goth who's parents have citizenship (The next person who trolls with pic of an ugly woman in black I will reach through my monitor and strangle you :lol: ) And as a barbarian she wouldn't have to hit the communal baths and a doctor would probably be less than eager to examine a barbarian who would kill you soon as look at you. Did they even have medical exams in the late roman army?
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - Tiberius Clodius Corvinus - 12-15-2008
Women weren't allowed in the roman army of whatever period. Simple as that. And ... what makes you think the other 5.999 guys in the legion wouldn't notice? That's nothing you need a medical exam for. :lol:
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - Gaius Decius Aquilius - 12-15-2008
The answer seems very simple.
Rome was known to have men who dressed as women. To be able sneak into the Roman army simply dusguise youself as a man who dusguised himself as a woman.
My batallion commander's driver used makeup, curled his eyelashes, and wore strangly modified boots and jungle fatigues. This guy wore a shiny green enameled helmet liner, and walked around with an Optio like staff he held straight out in front of him. Someone threw a dead frog at him once thinking he was from the general staff. This was on a firebase in Vietnam where no one cared one bit how any field troops ever looked or dressed. Every army has/had clowns in uniform. ( I am sorry, this is a bit OT, but given how non-regulation and un-official everyone in the field actually looked, talked, and acted that in no way conformed to any popular image, which is always agenda motivated, no matter from what source. I wonder how close any academic study or reenactment group can ever can get to any realistic interpretation, particularly for pre-industrial societies.)
The Roman case does not make legal sense, in that of privilage and property rights given soldiers. Even if the recruiters overlooked a few things the court system would not. Given, as noted above, there are references to a few rare female gladiators, and even these raised an eyebrow.
Christian, where did you get pictures of my poetry reading and meditation group?
Ralph I.
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - caiusbeerquitius - 12-16-2008
Quote:Your a mod and your trolling
Thank you for this extraordinarily well thought-out, wise comment. The moderator staff tries to treat everyone, every thread and every posting with just and due respect.
No, this is my way of modding, of course. More experienced RAT members like Ralph I. immediately catch the clue, see.
@ Ralph: I didn´t know they were YOURS, but they seem to be sort of interchangeable w/ many peotry groups from all over the world.
For those for which this is too much: Never, ever go to Leipzig...
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - M. Demetrius - 12-16-2008
Quote:Demtrius the seg only weighs around ten poundsMy, my, we certainly have a confrontational demeanor, don't we, sir? How long have you been involved in Roman reenacting, just out of curiosity?
I'll see your seg and add a balteus with plates and cast buckle, and an apron with cast buttons and terminals, a pugio, a helmet, a scutum, a subarmalis, a pair of caligae, a gladius, and a wool tunic, and if you can do all that plus a segmentata for 40 pounds, you're in good shape. If you substitute steel-ringed hamata with a shoulder doubler, add about 15 pounds to that, but call it an even 50. There are a few women these days who wouldn't consider that a hardship, and a smaller number who actually do join up and go marching around with the other reenactor soldiers. But there aren't many.
If I were just a smidgen more judgmental, I'd conclude you think none of us know anything about anything, and you are the final authority on just about everything. Just a smidgen more.
<moderator voice> Please stop trying to talk down to the rest of the folks, or we will take appropriate action, as the patience of some of the moderator staff is wearing exceedingly thin. </moderator voice>
Are we misinterpreting your attitude, Clibanarie?
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - jkaler48 - 12-16-2008
Perhaps woman were occasionally dressed as men and smuggled into camp
but not for an extended stay. Examples of senior officers doing so in later periods having done so are known. Often it was known by everyone in camp but politely ignored (at least in earshot of the officer in question) Maybe woman were on occasion able to serve with Roman allied troops where physicals and regular trips to the baths were not required.
In a few cultures of the times young woman did serve as combatants.
http://www.silk-road.com/artl/sarmatian.shtml
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - M. Demetrius - 12-16-2008
John, certain Gaulic tribes had women cavalry, and some of those were reportedly assigned to the Legions as auxiliary, within their own units, but that would be a rare situation. The original question was whether a woman could essentially masquerade as a male soldier, and the answer, of course, is "No."
As for the "often it was known" statement, that (to me, at least) seems a little farfetched. In a long term camp, it would be easy enough for a soldier of whatever rank to go to the vicus and obtain whatever all was offered there, including female companionship. For women to be smuggled into the camp seems pretty thoroughly against protocol, and it would be nice to see some historical reference to support that. Not that I'm arguing, at least not this time, :wink: but -- If it was "often" there should be references.
However, I freely admit I am fairly ignorant of Late Roman activities. I know at some point during the Empire, it was made legal for soldiers to take wives from wherever they found them, and their children were citizens...or so I heard.
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - Robert Vermaat - 12-16-2008
Women could serve in the Late Roman army, but not Roman womean, but women serving with federate barbarian units (Sarmatians come to mind).
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - Gaius Julius Caesar - 12-16-2008
Really!!
hock: I wonder if that explains the female masks..... :?
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - M. Demetrius - 12-17-2008
...the female masks...and the tubes of yellow face cream...and the cucumber slices...got it. It all makes sense now. :lol: :roll:
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - John Conyard - 12-17-2008
Can anybody think of any definite examples of females fighting in Roman, auxillary or federate units? I can't.
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - Robert Vermaat - 12-18-2008
Quote:Can anybody think of any definite examples of females fighting in Roman, auxillary or federate units? I can't.
Me neither.
I can think of tribes fighting for the Romans which might have women in arms, but that's just in theory. I can't think of any example that proves these women fought in Roman units.
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - John Conyard - 12-18-2008
I gratified to read that. I wouldn't want any surprises in the future.
Without any documented proof it is difficult, if not impossible, to acknowledge women fight with, or alongside, the Roman army.
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - Steakslim - 12-18-2008
Okay the main obstacles to a roman born woman serving in the legion would be the physical exam, the baths and wrestling naked. Okay hmmm how could I make that work for a book?
Re: Women in the roman army? (Combatants) - jkaler48 - 12-18-2008
In 21 AD there was some debate as to whether Roman governors' wives should accompany their husbands to the provinces.
Caecina Serverus argued against it on the grounds that women "paraded among the soldiers" and that "a woman [Plancina] had presided at the exercises of the cohorts and the manoevers of the legions"
(source "Women in Roman Britain" - Lindsay Allason-Jones - British Museum Publications - 0-7141-1392-1)
And a late Roman example:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NwQMAA ... n+praefect )&source=bl&ots=HcO-Z2o2fI&sig=KuZE8nYQukJYDMq1aWvBttF7oLY&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result