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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Is this what you're looking for?
   

nothing showing on any older Google aerials.

LIDAR =
   

Shapes are not old fields from 1879;
   

91379
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and this one from 2010 might just send you over the edge;

   

 a detailed download is available from http://www.ukaerialphotos.com/ for £29.67 (other suppliers may be available)

ps I am a Tring convert.......
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(02-20-2016, 05:40 PM)John1 Wrote: and this one from 2010 might just send you over the edge

Hmm, looks like something there - but it's not too clear. A camp for ten thousand men would need an enclosure of at least 150,000 square metres (15 hectares), I reckon... The springs of the Bulbourne are very close to that position though. And (if it means anything), the orientation of those crop mark lines seems to relate closely to the orientation of Newground Road, albeit there's 1.7 miles between them...



(02-20-2016, 05:40 PM)John1 Wrote: I am a Tring convert.......

Me too. Although only that particular site! [Image: wink.png]
Nathan Ross
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Some enhanced LIDAR of the site from Steve Kaye makes the complex appear to be old field boundaries but still some room for speculation I think;

   

93123
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(02-20-2016, 05:40 PM)John1 Wrote: I am a Tring convert.......

Welcome aboard!
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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An approximation of Nathan's 15ha camp for scale purposes, i.e. plenty of space;

   
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Bodicacias Tombstone again;

http://www.cotswoldarchaeology.co.uk/tom...ecialists/
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(03-15-2016, 07:41 AM)John1 Wrote: Bodicacias Tombstone again;

http://www.cotswoldarchaeology.co.uk/tom...ecialists/

That awful BBC programme last year began with that tombstone. Red herring or what!
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...can-revolt
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Thanks John...

Seems to support the Tacitus texts "The whole army was then brought together and kept under canvass to finish the remainder of the war"

Deryk
Deryk
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Hello from Brazil! I have enjoyed tremendously reading all of your posts- they are EXACTLY the sort of discussion I was looking forward to find online (and, hopefully in Academia) and on reading them I became a fan of the whole group.
Since everyone seems to have gone AWOL, I just pictured you all on your way to Tring with shovels and spades - a girl can dream.
I am just a curious reader and an Archaeology fan, so I'm afraid I'll keep on being just a reader after registering, but I'd like to thank and congratulate you on the forum - delightful and I have to confess- addictive. (hoping I don't sound too "deranged-fan-familiar" hey- I'm latin!)
A few thoughts: I believe one of the data that could be factored in with terrain/distance/hydrology would be major and minor archaeological finds from around AD 61 -if not from digs, from occasional finds- who knows whether they could add to the picture?

Talking about picture, THIS Tollense River http://bit.ly/22JIFe8 image from an Iron Age battle in Germany got my imagination running.
Though the skeletons seem to have been preserved by the moist/anaerobic conditions (probably not the case for Boudica's last stand) it brought back mental images I had- of the casualty-filled battlefield and the human/animal remains becoming part of the soil - would the place soon become "taboo", "cursed"? A pilgrimage site? Forgotten?
I wonder if (and for how long) the decomposition process would cause the presence of will-'o-the-wisp/ignus fatuus to be seen on the field, and how it would be interpreted then. (then again -thanks Google! -it seems it is not caused by methane photon emissions after all... anyone?) Too bad, I can almost SEE it, can you, the field alight with ghostly/eery "flames"...

I don't have a location to propose, though I remember laughing to myself when I spotted the Cotswolds Upper and Lower Slaughter on a map. Does anyone need better than that? Neon arrow required? (yes, I DID read the etymology)
Now- how amazing it was, Nathan Ross offering half a cow and Cow Roast popping ahead!

I think you all do wonderful reasoning, congrats, Armchair Generals! I love Steve Kaye's papers but I am not opposed to choosing a site and championing it - I find it very exciting -as long as we are open to reasoning and new data- I believe it can be fruitful- after all, this forum is a brainstorming exercise, right?

best regards!
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(05-24-2016, 09:43 PM)Marieta Sandalo Wrote: EXACTLY the sort of discussion I was looking forward to find online

Glad to hear it [Image: smile.png]


(05-24-2016, 09:43 PM)Marieta Sandalo Wrote: would the place soon become "taboo", "cursed"? A pilgrimage site? Forgotten?

There was a discussion some way back on this massive thread, I remember, about post-battle disposal of the bodies. Unfortunately we don't know all that much about either the Roman or the native British attitudes to battle sites. There are examples of Romans constructing victory monuments, for example (Germanicus in AD16, Augustus after Actium, Trajan at Adamklissi), but this apparently wasn't a common practice.

The ghosts of the 'unquiet dead' were thought (by the Romans) to haunt the earth, and quite possibly the Britons had similar ideas. But in the case of Tring/Cow Roast at least there's evidence of later occupation and/or industrial use of the site - albeit maybe a century or more later. If the battle happened (as most of us seem to think) a long way from Iceni territory, the local people may have had little veneration for the dead - they'd have just stripped the corpses of anything valuable and burned them to clear the land. If the battle site was on or close to a major road (as seems likely), leaving a load of corpses lying about would not have been ideal.

Britain, and Europe generally, is covered with the sites of historic battles, few of which have yielded any remains, and few of which are even known for certain. It does seem that people in the past were quick to forget the exact locations!

There's a brief article here about 'trophies and tombstones' in the Roman world, if you can access it.
Nathan Ross
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on Marieta's point regarding whether there would be a memory of or memorial to the battle site. 

There is a tempting theory that the site named in the Ravenna Cosmography as Iaciodulma was on Watling Street and may have been derived from a latin compound meaning "to lie dead" and "offering to the Gods". So finding Iaciodulma may lead us to the memorial to the battle site. Some say Iaciodulma later evolved into the phrase Castle Dykes, Church Stowe I'm not sure how, but the bloke down the pub was pretty certain, anyway the link is here, and so let slip the dogs of latin.........http://www.romaneranames.uk/i/iaciodul.htm
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WOW! A person from half-a-world away offers a refreshing new insight, possibly sending this amazing thread in a new direction. I am pleased to say I shall have to re-engage in this compelling discussion. Thank you Marieta.

Without referring back to John's proposal, I recall there was topography, possibly evidence, on the Church Stowe site supporting a Roman memorial.
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(05-27-2016, 08:32 PM)John1 Wrote: the site named in the Ravenna Cosmography as Iaciodulma was on Watling Street and may have been derived from a latin compound meaning "to lie dead" and "offering to the Gods".

Everything except that website seems to prefer the idea that it's a version of Lactodurum (probably Towcester)... The site thinks this is 'probably wrong' but doesn't say why...

And why would a place in Britain be named after a combination of Latin and Greek words? Even if the word made sense, a Roman memorial wouldn't be 'offering' dead people to the gods!


(05-27-2016, 08:32 PM)John1 Wrote: Some say Iaciodulma later evolved into the phrase Castle Dykes, Church Stowe

"but Pegg has suggested one good candidate". So 'some say' should be 'you say', hmm? [Image: wink.png]
Nathan Ross
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