RomanArmyTalk

Hi all,

My sister has returned from a short trip to Rome. I commissioned her to take a few pics (only a few :wink: ) in behalf of all us Late RATers. I'll be posting them here.
The first one are the famous (Through Mike Bishop's drawing on Jon Coulston's paper about Late Roman armour) armoured soldiers at the Vatican Museum:

The relief is fairly small and seems to come from a frieze or a sarcophagus. The helmets are fanciful and the scale cuirass, impossible :roll: , but the concave round shields are correctly embraced (Though portraited off-centre! ) and showing the reinforcing bar.

Aitor

Now a set of pics of the last remain of the set of columns erected by the Tetrarchs on 303 AD to celebrate the vicennalia of the Augusti and the Decennalia of the Cesares: The base for the Cesares.
First, a general view:


Only three of the fourth sides are accessible to the general public (Several gods are portraited on the fourth side).
Here we have the main side. Between trophies, two Victories hold a clipeus with an inscription commemorating the Decennalia (CAESARVM DECENNALIA FELICITER):

A procession of togati is depicted on another side. As a background, several vexilla and legionnary eagle standards:


Aitor

Thanks for all nice Pictures Aitor!

My pleasure, Damien
Last pics of the set.
On the third side, the Suovetaurilia (Sacrifice of a pig, a ram and a bull) is portraited.

To the right, there is a togatus, caressing the ram's head or holding it. The toga is of the late pleated type. Most interestingly, the man carries a mushroom staff on his left hand. Though the man could be a civilian public servant, those staffs are mainly associated with military officers and, the short ones, with centurions. This early fourth century military sporting the toga while being at Rome bears witness of the keeping of ancient traditions even at this late period.


Aitor

Very nice pictures, especially the first one. Tell your sister thanks from us!

I'll do Robert!
I told her that the Vatican soldiers pic would increase my popularity at the forum! :wink:

Aitor

I have never read a real picture to the Chiaramonti relief just the Mike Bishop drawning. It is the first one. We have a better view to the hasta (?) Thank again.

It happens the same to me, Damien 8)
It's a pity that the fragment is inserted high in a wall and, therefore, the perspective and quality of the photo are rather distorted

Aitor

Thanks Aitor, nice pics! Have those helmets on the tropaeii feathers or downward pointed horns?

Vale,

Hi Daniele,
I really don't know but I guess that, if they weren't feathers (the most likely explanation), they could be side crests of one of those strange Hedderheim or Theilenhofen Third century helmets... :?

Aitor

Very nice Aitor! Another bunch of pics for my image directory

Laudes awarded!

Thank you very much Aitor!!! Wonderful pics. Laudes

Aitor,

Regarding the first photo (I don't disagree with you at all but) I have to play devil's advocate here. You use the pic to support your theory of concave scuta but dismiss the details you don't like as "fanciful" or "impossible". Doesn't that seem a little arbitrary? Some people might argue that you can't have it both ways.

Hi Franklin,
Maybe I am a little biased against the recurrent and archaeologically unsuported Attic helmets :wink: but, have you thought of wearing a long, full-sleeved scale shirt? hock:
(Not to mention carrying a round shield -not a Greek one- with its hand-grip totally off-centre 8) )

Aitor

Exactly my point. I agree that all these details are suspect...so then why assume that the concave shield is any more reliable? You've picked the one detail out of the entire relief that supports one of your theories and used it as evidence while dismissing all the others.

Again, I completely agree with everything you said, I'm just pointing out how your argument might appear to others.