RomanArmyTalk

Greetings!

I am in need of a cinculum militare, is there any reference to the plates being made of copper? I have alot of copper sheet, no brass or bronze. I have plenty of leather and belt blanks.It would be fairly easy to make the plates, just add time! Any thoughts? Thanks!

Respectfully,

Wes

Wes, although I don't have any reference to copper plates, you could always use a silver plating solution to silver them, which would look acceptable (many items were silvered). Alternatively, you could try to get your hands on non-leaded 100% tin tinning paste.

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 094#131094
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?p=81781
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 0158#60158
http://www.gwneale.co.uk/nealetin.html (you can specify 100% tin, no lead)
http://www.armae.com/fournituresgeneral ... scadre.htm (Pâte à étamer)

That said, I have a Len Morgan scabbard that had some copper plates, so wait and see if someone here can come up with similar examples of belt plates.

I have seen one Gallic style helmet with copper decorations. This is the only thing I can think of that has pure copper. As Jim suggested you might be able to tin them and hide the fact that they are copper. I suggest you sell the copper, and buy some sheet brass if you can.

Maybe you could make them look like sheet bronze plates with a bit of work (distress them a little?) - Leg XX site has some of these made by Matt about half way down the page.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/balteus.html

Home Depot sells two kinds of heat-induced tinning compound in the plumbing section. The one, Oatey's 95, I think, is an oil-based flux which is a little messy, and the other, which I've bought but not yet used, is water based. The oil flux has to be removed with solvent, soap, or something before a second coat will adhere correctly. The hope is the water based will allow skipping of that step, and come clean more easily.

Thanks! I have plenty of tin too, I use it for lining my pots and kettles. Lets see what I work up!!

Much appreciated!

Wes

I don't think I have seen ANY Roman metalwork that is straight copper, unfortunately. Just brass and bronze (or some combination thereof). If that's all you have, tin it and call it "copper alloy", and few will complain. But God will know... I did use some kind of bronze for one set of belt plates, but if I do any more of those I'll just use brass--got several old kickplates lying around for that sort of project.

Remember to tin the metal BEFORE you stamp or punch any design on it! That way the design will disguise any irregularities in the tinning, rather than the other way around. Much easier to tin a smooth surface, anyway.

Vale,

Matthew

I was wondering how smooth the Roman tinning was... I just tinned an object and it has one rough spot were I reheated the tin. I was wondering if this is a problem.

I use the pink fiberglass home insulation when I tin, to wipe it smooth, but I have had good results with flax tow as well, the tow, depending on how much its been worked, will give various degrees of "smoothness" in the tin surfacing.

Wes

Dear Wes,

Could you please describe the tinning method you use? I'm very new to fire tinning and would like to know some good procedures.

Thanks in advance,
Vale,
Jef

Greetings!

Well I went to the local scrap/recycling place, I picked up a 10 inch by 48 inch piece of sheet brass, 7 pounds, for $14.00 USD. Its a good heavy sheet, will make nice plates.

As far as tinning, depending on my project I usually buff the metal with steel wool, removing all dirt, grease, etc. then I coat it really well with flux or tinning paste. Then I heat it, being careful not to get it too hot. I then either apply my tin, which I have cast into "straws" or thinner rod shaped ingots. While its still running, I wipe it with the insulation or flax tow, depending on what I have on hand. The wiping gives a good even coat on the metal. Use only 1 piece of insulation or tow per wipe, or you can add dirt or carbon into the finish.

For my kettles I have a melting pot that I melt the tin in and ladle it into the pot or kettle and "swish" it around and then pour out the excess. PM me and I can e-mail you or mail you a copy of some of the text I have on tinning and copperwork, be glad to share.

Wes

Wes,

If you don't feel like making up dies or taking up embossing, it might be useful to know that there are quite a number of plain type 'A' belt plates known, some of which have been tinned or silvered. These would be much easier to make than more elaborate plates.

Crispvs

DO tell!! What is the plain type A??

Thanks!
Wes

Here are reproductions of typical type 'A' and type 'B' plates (obviously most plates would not be hinged to dagger frogs).

Type 'A'


Type 'B'


Type 'A' plates are normally cast and rectangular in shape. Some have rivets soldered to their backs whilst others are pierced for rivets. Most are highly decorated with stylised patterns which are then inlaid with niello. Some, however are plain and have simply been tinned or silvered.

Type 'B' plates are generally squarer in shape and always feature a central motif. This can be concentric circles or one of a small number of standardised figural motifs. Most type 'B' plates feature a rolled tube down each side, which could be used to accomodate a piece of wire with a metal ball at each end. Although cast examples are known, the vast majority are made from thin sheet which has been stamped using a die and then often tidied up a bit with small chisels.

Crispvs

Thanks! I have been wondering how hard it would be to "emboss" the circles onto some plates......

Respectfully,

Wes