Quote:I would think that Herodotus would have rather more idea of the Scythian language than Paul Manansala, seeing he lived during the same era..!
I hope so. Carrasquer Vidal, who wrote the reply, seems to be a historical linguist (I encountered some of his articles) who studied and works in the Netherlands (not sure he still does), but Manansala seems to be an "independent historian". When you encounter a self-description like that, you're probably dealing with somebody without a degree in history and not overly bothered with the discipline's methodologies... :?
On the other hand, from a few things I've read he seems to be polite and make reasoned arguments, which is more than I can say of a lot of people, including some who can wave proper academic credentials :roll:
A final note concerning Herodotus: Yes, he lived in the same era, and he seems to have actually visited Scythia. However, he was no trained linguist and the temptation to make unwarranted linguistic speculations, especially considering distant countries and peoples, is never far away. Ancient, medieval and early modern (and many amateur modern!) linguistic speculations are always suspect.
To quote the old Father of Li..er, history:
Quote:Now the Egyptians, before the reign of their king Psammetichus, believed themselves to be the most ancient of mankind. Since Psammetichus, however, made an attempt to discover who were actually the primitive race, they have been of opinion that while they surpass all other nations, the Phrygians surpass them in antiquity. This king, finding it impossible to make out by dint of inquiry what men were the most ancient, contrived the following method of discovery:- He took two children of the common sort, and gave them over to a herdsman to bring up at his folds, strictly charging him to let no one utter a word in their presence, but to keep them in a sequestered cottage, and from time to time introduce goats to their apartment, see that they got their fill of milk, and in all other respects look after them. His object herein was to know, after the indistinct babblings of infancy were over, what word they would first articulate. It happened as he had anticipated. The herdsman obeyed his orders for two years, and at the end of that time, on his one day opening the door of their room and going in, the children both ran up to him with outstretched arms, and distinctly said "Becos." When this first happened the herdsman took no notice; but afterwards when he observed, on coming often to see after them, that the word was constantly in their mouths, he informed his lord, and by his command brought the children into his presence. Psammetichus then himself heard them say the word, upon which he proceeded to make inquiry what people there was who called anything "becos," and hereupon he learnt that "becos" was the Phrygian name for bread. In consideration of this circumstance the Egyptians yielded their claims, and admitted the greater antiquity of the Phrygians.
So much for cutting-edge linguistic science in Antiquity...:roll:
Quote:I have noticed before the words danu and don...both of which feature in the British Isles. The River Don, of course, has the caester...! Danu is an Irish Goddess, the Tuatha De Danaan her people. In Welsh she is known as Dôn and rivers are named Trydonwy and Dyfrdonwy...There again, the Scythians were said to be related to the Picts/Prytani/Britani? and some of the Irish families were supposedly descended from them, myself included by virtue of my late grandmother.... :roll: !
I suppose they might very well be related words. As for "Scythian" roots of the Pretani, the Gaels and other Celtic peoples, I wouldn't put too much faith in those stories. They are part of the genre of giving peoples a pedigree reaching back to regions and peoples familiar from either the classical authors and mythology or the Bible. The Franks, for instance, were supposed to be descended from the Trojans, just like the Britons by way of Brutus. And we all know the supposed Trojan ancestry of the Romans...
More substantial links between the Celtic-speaking peoples and the Scythians can be found, I think, in two things. First, common Indo-European linguistic and cultural roots (which possibly may include a few genes as well - though at best not much at the western end of the spread of Indo-European languages). Second, the Scythians and the eastern end of the Hallstatt Culture populations were in contact in the Danube basin, presumably leading to mutual cultural borrowings and (voluntary and/or involuntary) geneflow. Heh...involuntary geneflow...admit, that sounds nicer than "rape and kidnapping". Erm, I digress... :wink:
(Read Kristian Kristiansen's "Europe Before History", specifically the chapter "New Economic Axis, 750-450 BC, and continue from there...)
Finally, if you can trace some of your ancestors to areas where the Romans settled groups of Sarmatians or Alans, or otherwise to the middle and lower Danube region, chances are you'll have some Scythian/Sarmatian/Alan ancestors. Of course, most of your (or anybody else's for that matter)ancestors will have been ordinary farmers, not mounted warrior aristocrats galloping out of the steppe...