RomanArmyTalk

I wonder if anyone could identify the type of shoe featured in the colour plates of Osprey's RMC (2)? Its the low-cut black 4th C shoes worn by the soldier sporting the reversed swastikas on his tunic.



I was about to try my hand at some Deurne shoes, but those worn by figure number G1 look very much like the simple black shoes worn in mosaics of the period (and by all Justinian's mates in the 6th). I like the fastening, too - I get along well with integral laces.

I am reluctant to just copy a painting, however, unless I know that the painting features a certain shoe type. Can anyone help?

Hi Paul!
I suppose these shoes are same as on the 3rd century tombstone of Ares - top right picture page 36 of the same title (magnifying glass recommended as details are difficult to recognise ).

Ares is also in the Imagebase.

I think it was called conjeturally "campagus" (plural: campagi). Probably Aitor Iriarte can help you, because he wear a recontruction of ine kind of that shoes.

Paul wrote:

Quote:I wonder if anyone could identify the type of shoe featured in the colour plates of Osprey's RMC (2)? Its the low-cut black 4th C shoes worn by the soldier sporting the reversed swastikas on his tunic.



I was about to try my hand at some Deurne shoes, but those worn by figure number G1 look very much like the simple black shoes worn in mosaics of the period (and by all Justinian's mates in the 6th). I like the fastening, too - I get along well with integral laces.

I am reluctant to just copy a painting, however, unless I know that the painting features a certain shoe type. Can anyone help?

_________________

Hi Paul

No need to be shy, you can always ask me directly You are quite right in not wanting to copy something from a reconstruction painting without doing some background research of your own first.

There is in fact a lot of evidence for shoes of this period found in Egypt. Unfortunately most of this evidence was as the result of early excavations so much of it has been either forgotten or lost. Therefore it is unlikely to appear in modern publications and as the items were found in Egypt at places like Antinoe. Most Roman books dealing with costume etc... will probably miss them out as well . A real pity. They could really do with being republished but I doubt whether that will happen in the near future.

You can see some more versions of the really elaborate types in Roman Military Clothing 3. Most of the shoe designs in there were copied from watercolour drawings of the shoes made at the time of their discovery. As you will see they are quite astonishing. I have only ever seen a few photographs of some of the items themselves, most examples I have seen were the drawings which would suggest that the shoes themselves have now been lost. Many finds went to Berlin so could have been destroyed in WWII or equally possible are in storage somewhere. You would really have to try and track down old relevant excavation reports in a good University library. Egypt section not Roman.

Off the top of my head ( as it was some time ago and I would need to search through a mass of notes to get the exact answer) the shoe you are particularly interested in would have been a combination of the original source, The Piazza Armerina Mosaic. and finding a shoe in the watercolour drawings which looked very similar.

Hope this helps.

Graham.

Quote:I was about to try my hand at some Deurne shoes, but those worn by figure number G1 look very much like the simple black shoes worn in mosaics of the period (and by all Justinian's mates in the 6th).

I hope I´m not posting out of place, but Aitor sent me pictures of his new copies of the Deurne campagi. And since he won´t be back on RAT till August, here they are.

Thanks Graham, well on that basis I might make up a pair. That type of low black shoe does seem ubiquitous in the pictorial sources.

Thanks for posting up Aitor's assymetrical Deurne shoe Robert. I was going to make one of those instead, but it would not have turned out as fine as that! I did make a pair of Deurne 'cut-out' shoes, no sole as yet and I've scored the patterns on, not cut them out. But it's not a great fit at the ankle, so I will be attempting soldier G1's shoes as well, I think.

After plentiful oiling, I plan to paint them black ... the Western way ...

Hi Paul,

Quote:There is in fact a lot of evidence for shoes of this period found in Egypt. Unfortunately most of this evidence was as the result of early excavations so much of it has been either forgotten or lost. Therefore it is unlikely to appear in modern publications and as the items were found in Egypt at places like Antinoe.

even though it does not feature campagi, one reference for shoes found in Egypt (which still might be worthwhile in terms of comparison, techniques and style) from roman to medieval times with very good drawings and photographs is

Musee du Louvre, Departement des Antiquites Egyptiennes. Catalogue des Chaussures de L'Antiquite Egyptienne. 2000

Graham, thanks for the hint and I'd be very grateful for any reference on roman era shoe finds, always on the lookout for more here :-) )

Quote:I did make a pair of Deurne 'cut-out' shoes, no sole as yet and I've scored the patterns on, not cut them out.

Which pattern is that? Sarah Juniper made me a pair based on this pattern (no soles of course):

I made a pair of shoes based on the same pattern, as reproduced in B&C1, but without further information to tell me not to I sewed soles onto them befor sewing them up. I did mine with laces in the same way Sarah Juniper has done, but simplified the pattern slightly by omitting the cut-outs. Overall mine look very similar to yours but mine are turned inside out so that the seams are on the inside, as I had been led to believe the originals had been. I see yours have insoles. Is this an original feature? If so it would help to make up for the lack of a sole.

Crispvs

Quote:I see yours have insoles. Is this an original feature? If so it would help to make up for the lack of a sole.

No, Sarah added them for comfort and I kept them.

Hi Robert, I used the very plan you posted up, these are mine. A little too short I think, but with a little water and some stretching I think I can cure that. I did not cut out the patterns but left them in. I plan too do alot of marching in these shoes. I will be adding an insole as well as an outer sole and hobnails. I have been reading Carol van Driel Murray, and she suggests that in 4thC British lots of shoe designs, came either nailed or sewn. As a legionary - I'm having mine nailed. There is reason to believe (Is it the Price Edict??) that boots actually came un-nailed in the first place, and that the soldiers had to have them nailed.

Quote:I plan too do alot of marching in these shoes. I will be adding an insole as well as an outer sole and hobnails.

Ah..hem.. These are cavalry shoes, no soles and unfit for marching great distances in. Now, I don't know if these shoes also came with soles for infantry use, but afaik none have been found so far. the campagi were also for a cavalryman, in fact the imprint left by the spur found at Deurne is seen in one of the campagi.

Could someone please post the pattern again. These are exaclty what I have been searching for

Thanks

Mithras wrote "I have been reading Carol van Driel Murray, and she suggests that in 4thC British lots of shoe designs, came either nailed or sewn. "
Mithras, could you recommend any particular book/ article here- preferably in English? I've read her articles on Vindolanda leather finds and shield covers in JRMES, and would like to read more. Impressive stuff.

Cheers

Cabal;lo