Hello
I am an illustrator and I am researching the very early (and also the very late) Roman Armies.
By very early I mean monarquic Roman Army (Etruscan Roman Armies).
I allready read Greece and Rome at war (Peter Connolly).
Can anyone direct me to other sources.
I am most interest in pictorial (and description of) weapons, armour and gclothing, as this is meant to produce some illustrations.
Thanks in advance
Best regards
JP VIeira
PS: I enclose a initial sketche of the Roman Etruscan army (classes 2 and 5)
Only a girlie observation but, suggest swords in problematic position.
May ruin their future married lives.
Perhaps not in centre of body hanging between the legs
Hilary
PS
Shield & umbo wrong shape, oval better - suggest look at Fayum eg
sword chape looks late period
Helmet crest looks strange - shame that truncated, cant see top of it
Sorry, sounds negative.
Nice drawings though
Hilary
No, the shield is fine, it's straight off the Certosa situla. The crest looks a little short, but that might just be the angle. Granted, the sword dangling in front could be a problem on the move, but swords do have a habit of getting out of place, sometimes...
Nice work!
Matthew
um, by very early do you refer to the times of the Roman Phalanx or the Manipular legion?
The man on the right looks like a Second Class spearmen if you refer to the original army, or a Hastati during the Samnite Wars.
In any case the guy on the left looks like a Velite before the reforms of 211.[/i]
Quote:um, by very early do you refer to the times of the Roman Phalanx or the Manipular legion?
The man on the right looks like a Second Class spearmen if you refer to the original army, or a Hastati during the Samnite Wars.
In any case the guy on the left looks like a Velite before the reforms of 211.[/i]
Hello
For very early I mean two periods: the foundation (8th century BC) and Etruscan Roman (circa 6th century BC). The drawing refers to the second of these periods, the etruscan roman army of the 6th C BC.
I have not included all the figures in the illustration: there will be also a Etruscan hoplite (Class I).
I am also preparing a second illustration depicting the foundation period; i am using the vilanova period as a source, but I am not sure about the accuracy of it (to the roman army).
Best regards
JP Vieira
Have a look at P.F. Stary's Zur Eisenzeitlichen Bewaffnung und Kampfesweise in Mittelitalien if you can get your hands on it. It's in German (as you no doubt gathered from the title), but it has all of the recorded archaeological examples of Roman and Etruscan military equipment from the 9th through 6th centuries BC (as of 1981 at least). Even if you can't read the texts, the second volume (its only two volumes) has images or drawings of all the finds, which should give you some idea of the basic types of equipment which were present.
Nobody really knows much about the military equipment from the period (even Bishop and Coulston give it a wide berth because of lack of information), so, to be honest, you could probably take a fair bit of license without anyone being able to prove you wrong. But, as far as I'm aware, Stary's book covers everything we can actually prove existed!
Good luck!
Well, if you're going to do a Hoplite, heres a pic of a Etrusco-Corinthian helm.
Helmet
Nice pic!
Etruscan 'hoplite' helmets always amuse me because it seems like they liked how the Greek-style hoplite helmets looked, but then couldn't figure out how they were supposed to use them! If you look carefuly at the pic of the helmet, you'll see that there is no way the 'face' section of the helmet could actually cover a warrior's face comfortably... and its because the helmet was never designed to cover the face! It was designed to be worn back on the head, like the pictures of Athena or Greek warriors before they went into battle.
lol, yeah, I never figured that one out. Why put in fake eye holes and a nosepiece if its going to be in the middle of your forehead?
On another note, I have seen pictures of those helmets with cheekpieces, lemme get one...
...ahh yes, here
![[Image: italocor1.jpg]](http://members.aol.com/annoratheaxe/italocor1.jpg)
The Italian peoples were accustomed to pot-helmets without cheek-pieces when Greek armour was introduced in the 7th/6th century BC. And such helmets remained popular down to the 5th century BC (viz. the Negau helmet)
It seems logical to me that they would wear the (Etrusco-)Corinthian helmet at the top of their head. Etruscan soldiers are also depicted wearing Attic helmets with the cheek pieces turned up.
In the 4th century the Celtic Monefortino helmet was introduced and quickly became the standard helmet. This style of helmet did have cheek pieces. By the 2nd century BC te Etrusco-Corinthian was adapted to the Montefortino standard by the adoption of cheek pieces. A 1st century version has almost the same skull as the Montefortino helmets of the period.
The fact that the eyes survived so long is not surprising. They had become decorative and decorative elements do not disappear simply because they're useless.
hello
thanks all for the contributions.
I would like to know some sources for the foundation period.
I have the Tome and Greece at war (Peter Connollly) and early roman armies (from osprey).
Does anyone know other sources (mostly pictorial, please).
Best regards
JP VIeira
Hello
I am currently finishing this illustration. It will feature (besides the two warrior depicted) a 1st class Roman Hoplite.
Best regards
JP Vieira
Any suggestions of sourdes will be wellcome
Commilito:
Do you know who made that helmet? I may want to contact him.