RomanArmyTalk

Now there's a useful insight, Stefane! Connolly talks about the makers "packing out" the rim, which would make sense if the wood is built into the facing. Thanks and praise!

Well, the shield is now from 10 layers to 2. The rim and Bowel are getting their outsides shaped tonight and then I will join them and sand the inside Friday night. Right on schedule. Did have one set back already, two of the rings separeted so I had to splice in two 1/3 sections of layers 6 and 7. I guess a part of the wood I got was bad. Easy enough of a fix though. Paul, I do agree that things don't EVER work as we expect. I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop. I recall having days with my Aspis when I wanted to pick it up, walk out of my garage, and throw it in front of the next oncoming car, but it eventually worked itself out. I have definately settled on the Black and White "old landowner" shield with the two scorpions. I will paint them white facing the center where I will most likely simply put a disk. I think the center object should be very simple since the segments of the scorpion will be one of the more detailed Mora I have seen. I'll post pics when it is done.

Another thing. Just my two cents and I will preface this with I am no where near as knowledgeable about Greek history as most the members here, but I have been thinking about the use of the cutouts. I really do not think it would have been effective to use them to "disarm" the enemy as suggested. I have been a serious student of various martial arts disciplines for 23 years and have also served in the government arena. With all the training, it just doesn't seem feasable. If you think about it, I would have to allow the opponent to stab/thrust through the opening and then twist or raise the shield ubruptly, trapping the sword itself. Think about reaction times. I personally would not want to leave it up to the distance from the cut-out to my body (which is small, even extended) to perform such a movement. That would only leave you a fraction of a second to exploit that type of opportunity. Why would you, when the angles of the shield are perfect for deflecting an opponents blow and possibly oppening his defense that way. I personally feel it is probably just an aesthetic quality left from earlier shield designs as it progressed in to the Aspis. Or maybe it was used in thrusting much like the Romans. It would protect the hand and the arm when moving in off the 45 from your opponent. Just enough space to shove the tip of a xiphos through without any exposure. Just my two cents.

This shield was not designed for ordered rank fighting initially.
It was the weapon of the Geometric Era noble warrior who first cast javelins and then closed with the sword on his opponents. The "scalops" are there to help you take aim.
That is the reason that king Pheidon of Argos armed his massed spearmen with round shields.

The Morae of Skiritis and Pylos depicted in the "Exekias vases" were fighting in a "peltastic way" in the 6th century B.C. and the Skiritans coninued to be used as skirmishers till the late 4th century B.C.
That it why they use "Beotian shileds".
They fought in loose order when came to overthrow the Peisistrades and perhaps thats the reason Kinneas, Thessalian horsemen got the better of them.

Also probably a smaller vesrion of this shield was used by cavalrymen but I am still researching that.

Kind regards

The other shoe dropped. Got home and my in-laws were here. They finally left and I rushed outside to start sanding. 20 minutes into it and my belt sander's motor burned up. I am off to home depot to buy a new one and another day is lost. I still have more than enough time tho Paul. I almost think the Greek God's are cursing me....... :wink:

Ok, something good came out of that. I threw away my $20 Walmart special sander and bought a much more expensive variable speed 8 amp Porter Cable sander. Night and day of difference. 1 1/2 hours and the rim is shaped, 5 of the 8 layers of the outside are complete, the other three layers are almost done, and the rim is glued and set up to the bowel for the next day and a half. Right back on schedule. and 10 days left to work.

Quote:Ok, something good came out of that. I threw away my $20 Walmart special sander and bought a much more expensive variable speed 8 amp Porter Cable sander. Night and day of difference. 1 1/2 hours and the rim is shaped, 5 of the 8 layers of the outside are complete, the other three layers are almost done, and the rim is glued and set up to the bowel for the next day and a half. Right back on schedule. and 10 days left to work.

Outstanding! I wish I could see you at work, you got the cutting-out and joining done much faster than I do.

Hi Chris.

Can we see some pictures of your work so far?

I'm really looking forward to see this shield completed. That and Ralph's

I'll try to take some pics when I get home. Nothing exciting though. It is half way between the stair step effect and the smooth shape that it should take. I am waiting to cut the holes out after I have finished the sanding so that they will stay crisp and sharp.

Home and it says I have reached my upload limit. If anyone can tell me how to let you see the pics I will gladly post them. Thanks.

OK. Had to delete my pics off the subarmalis thread, but here is where I was today at about noon. I started out with a small hole like the other one pictured in this thread. Separating the rim like that for a shield considerably weakens its integrity though. Even if it were to have a thin metal facing it is rather flexible around the holes. I guess its kind of like the difference between a Katana's rigidity as oppossed to the Chinese Gim Sword or broadsword. I would most definately prefer the Aspis for a hard blow. I increased the size of my holes after carefully studying the vases. ALL the paintings show them as MUCH bigger than the reproductions I have seen so I more closely matched mine to the artist renditions. It does weaken the overall structure a little more than a smaller hole, but not by that much. My wife, who has an architecture degree, walked out and said, "I wondered why the hell they would have done that. I knew it would weaken it just from the drawings I saw. Guess it had to be for some reason to compensate for the weakened state it leaves the shield." Anyways, I will post more current pics when I am done. Ahead of schedule now by a day. It does leave one to wonder though.....Why in the heck would a sane person split the shield at the rim which is the hardest and thickest part of the shield to leave the support to the center which is the thinnest and weakest part of the shield. Oh well, it "LOOKS" great even if it isn't the beast of the Aspis.

Nice work Cris.
As for the rigidity issue please remember that probably they "steamed" whole planks which makes it another thing altogether.
Kind regards

Yeah. I understand that too. Solid wood would have been a bit stronger, but physically, it is impossible that a cut rim of any construction would have been as stout as the Aspis design. Even solid steel would be weaker once the rim was cut compared with the same shape left whole. I wish I had a lathe or method for making it exactly as it was made for study, but this will have to do. It will never see simulated combat or receive a single blow anyways. Once I get a nice paint job on it, I think I would have to kill someone for getting even a little scratch on it. :lol: I have a new theory......maybe the holes were for bracing their Glocks for longer range shots. :wink: At least that's what I would use it for.

Well done Chris!!!! I can't wait to see it finished. Definately laudes

I have probably missed something some where(as usual) but would they have not poked their spears through the cutouts?would allow for a real tight sheild wall? Maybe? :?:

It is a possibility Byron but it causes more trouble than worth.
That is why hoplites converted to round shields and overarm thrusting.
As I posted before the Lilandion Pedion battle settled the issue in favor of the round shield
Kind regards