I remember a reference to some Greek inscription on the inside of a shield. It was unclear if it was a map or an itinerary. I think it would be fun to put some inscriptions on the inside of my shield. Universal to soldiering, I would make an assumption commonly these would be vulgar and usually unprintable. When I was in, we wrote things on the inside of our hat stateside that were "unapproved". In Nam I saw all kinds of obscenities written on helmets, flack vests, jeeps, tanks, and the like. These were more common the closer to the shooting part of war you got. When you saw a lot of this, and everyone looked grubby, you knew you were in range of something hostile. The military didn't like it, but on a fire base there were no military, just soldiers.
Does anyone have any uncouth sayings in Latin, Greek, or other languages common to the army? Having something in a local script would be fun also. Hop lite14gr, I know you served, so can you come up with some good ones in Greek? Has anyone got any evidence? There are the lead sling pellets I know.
I thought about drawing the winged phallus known from wall graffiti, but that might be too obvious to the public. Some arcane script would suffice.
Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
Gaius:
I think your best bet is to research the so-called glandes. The sling pellets as you call them.
Many of them seem quite modern. Just as moderns paint/scribble messages on bombs, so to did the romans on "missiles" of their age. The advantage of the Roman oones is that the enemy could actually read them. This way they also served as a good propaganda tool.
As a general rule, they are a bit shocking to our modern sentiments though.
Kevin
Quote:I thought about drawing the winged phallus known from wall graffiti, but that might be too obvious to the public. Some arcane script would suffice.
Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
One of our guys (Demetrius in Comitatus) has that winged phallus on the inside of his shield. I have some Mithraic emblems, others have fancy paintings from the Notitia Dig or Dura. I am very much into a 'field' look and when I make my next shield do intend to scrawl something nasty on the inside. If only I'd picked up that book Pompeii Erotica I saw at Herculaneum, full of outrageous Latin!
Coituum inter sese faciatas! (Sorry about spelling and no offense meant)
Ok John..
So what does it mean? my Latin is not very good. Send it by private message if if you want.
I have a book on Latin Quips. It has a few appropriate sayings like:
BIBAMVS MORIENDVM EST
(Death's unavoidable; lets get drunk.
Which is cool. But I would like some appropriate in a language and script suitable for the less respectable areas of the Empire and native to the more common recruiting areas. If we have such a thing.
It is still worthwhile to perhaps put together a compendium of Latin slang and foul expressions. This does serve an academic purpose.
Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
Ralf many sling stones sport DEXA (imperative form for "take that").
They are museums and photoes are on the net.
In Luke Ueda Sarson Greek shield designs page there is a thacian shield with a male erction painted upon it!!
You possibly have noticed my comment on the 300 Spartans and Thermopylae thread about the real meaning of "Molon Lave"
Army language is quite "strong" and surprizingly seems to translate accurately eeverywhere!!!!! (genitalia are understood world wide.)
To avoid XXX comments I suggest this:
"Mercenaries don´t die. They regroup in Hell" so in ancient Greek (note TH like in Thursady)
OI MISTHOFOROI OY THNISKOSI. ANASIGROTONTAI TO ADI.
"You can´t beat me. You can only kill me" (Very Spartan!!)
OY NENIKIKAS ME, MONON APOKTEINIS ME.
Upon a shild (again very Spartan) "you see your death" ORAS TON THANATO SOY!!
If you like them I can try make them in Greek letters.
Kind regards
Quote:You possibly have noticed my comment on the 300 Spartans and Thermopylae thread about the real meaning of "Molon Lave"
If Leonidas was Bart in 'The Simpsons', I'd guess: "Eat my shorts!!!" :lol:
Or possibly, Demi Moore in G.I. Jane: "**** my ****!" :oops:
Ambrosius
Hi Ralph,
Quote:Does anyone have any uncouth sayings in Latin, Greek, or other languages common to the army? Having something in a local script would be fun also.
do you read German? There's
Decius war hier . . .
byKarl-Wilhelm Weeber
which lists ca. 600 graffiti from Pompeiji in Latin and German translation. Some of the graffiti are also reproduced as they were originally written.
cheers,
Martin
Quote:hoplite14gr:1sqb0r1q Wrote:You possibly have noticed my comment on the 300 Spartans and Thermopylae thread about the real meaning of "Molon Lave"
If Leonidas was Bart in 'The Simpsons', I'd guess: "Eat my shorts!!!" :lol:
Or possibly, Demi Moore in G.I. Jane: "**** my ****!" :oops:
Ambrosius
He actually suggested to the persian herald that King of Kings perform an action with his mouth to Leonidas groin. Thats the milder way I can put it :oops:
Victorian scholars were more restrained than me :roll:
If any body want a detailed explanation I must sent personal message because it is too XXX for the standart forum and the admins might not allow it.
Kind regards
Quote:Or possibly, Demi Moore in G.I. Jane: "**** my ****!" :oops:
Since when is 'suck' considered bad language?
You could insert 'Richard' for the other one. :wink:
OK...
So I have an idea. As Hoplite14gr points out, historical accuracy sometimes suffers because of sensitivities in time and culture. Academics should be above that, yet we all know certain boundaries apply on occasion.
The usage of certain terms, slang, and expressions are indicative of the sub-culture that produced them and its study is academically appropriate as any entnographer will tell you. There would be some value to a collection of linguistic usages that reference time, place, context, and meaning. Perhaps RAT could keep a restricted index of terms as an ongoing project. The term, its meaning, (or lack of it), the context of its appearance, attributes,and its geographical and temporal association would be noted as much as possible. I intend this undertaking to be specific to the Roman army. These by no means should be restricted to dirty words, of which I am sure there are plenty, but to slang or corruptions of correct grammar, whatever the language.
This could be of use in tracing the movement, or origin of certain units. Of specific value would be anything attributable to the axillary. For example, what could be made of a papyrus in a Greek vernacular using Macedonian style lettering found in Egypt and attributable to an Asturian Ala referring to amour production. Then having a similar document show up on Hadrian's wall. There are references to things like this found in the literature, but often are not published because the meaning is not clear or offensive. Its just adding more pieces to the puzzle, and sometimes when things match up we learn something.
Anyone with a legitimate (documented) item would submit it and the index could then be made available to academic inquiry.
BTW, i am going to punch in MOLON LAVE on my aux. shield boss in Greek lettering.
Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
I found this site:
www.ancientscripts.com
Which explains it's self. It has Proto-Sinaitic to Gothic, with time lines. The Greeks scripts include Ionian, Athenian, Corinthian, Argosian, and Euobeian. This last was the most common script to spread to Italy and evolved into Etruscan. So Molon Lave would pro baby more appropriate in Euboean on an axillary shied boss.
Gaius Decius Aqulius
(Ralph Izard)
Do you intend an impression of an auxilliary from the Greek-speaking world? And what time-period? You probably don't want the Euboean alphabet unless you're an Italiote ally from the early or middle Republic...
Some Latin attested from inscriptions on shield bosses dating to the Empire (via Google - not necessarily an endorsement of any of these sources):
COH I GAE FRVNTONI CVMVNI
private collection
IVL MAGNI IVNI DVBITATI
'(The property) of Junius Dubitatus, of Julius Magnus' century'
(from the river Tyne in Britain)
VITA LVCIVS SABINVS
"Life - Lucius Sabinus" (?)
(
ex-Guttmann Collection)
I don't know of too much slang found in Roman military contexts. We have loads of graffiti from Pompeii, as was already mentioned, some of it left by soldiers, e.g.
Floronius / benef(icarius) ac miles / leg(ionis) VII hic / fuit, neque/ mulieres / scierunt nisi / paucae et / se dederunt.
"Floronius, beneficarius and soldier of the 7th legion was here, but the women didn't notice him, except a few and they gave themselves to him"
A few examples of
other Pompeiian graffiti.
More, with French translation.
At Ostia there are graffiti left by men from the cohorts of vigiles. Some are collected on this
page (Also just a neat page for Ostian graffiti in general).