RomanArmyTalk

Ave Cvitas,

I am mired in igorance again.  I am trying to understand the working of the Grand Consistory.  There must have been a "Master of Ceremonies" to controlled the calling of the council to order and when it ended, also one who could  censor any member for unacceptable statements or actions.

So, I am  wondering which of the members was considered the Grand Banana?

In what context is this term used? Google suggests that Grand Consistory is a Masonic term, so I don't think Roman Army Talk can help!

Sean,

Thanks for the reply. I used Grand Consistory when the Latin was Consistorium, the emperor's privy council.

Tom

You may remember this post, and the order of precedence for the ministers of the consistorium; I'll repeat it here - it's taken from the Theodosian Code (C.Th XI. 18 - Feb 15th AD412):

Vir Illustres

1. Praetorian Prefect
2. Magistri Militum (The masters of the soldiers)
3. Comes Domesticorum (the commander of the household troops)
4. Praepositus sacri cubiculi (Controller of the Sacred Bedchamber)
5. Primicerius sacri cubiculi (Superintendent of the Sacred Bedchamber)
6. Castrensis Sacri Palati (Steward of the sacred palace)
7. Comes sacrae vestis (Companion of the Sacred Vestments)
8. Magister Officiorum (master of offices)
9. Quaestor
10. Comes Sacri Privati / Largitionem (the controllers of the sacred imperial and private treasury)

 
Vir Spectabiles

11. Primicerius Notariorum (the chief of the imperial secretaries)
12. Comites Consistiorum (the companions of the imperial consistory)
13. Magistrii Scrinii (the masters of the bureaus)
14. Comes archiatrorum (the controller of the chief physicians)
15. Comes Stabuli (controller of the stable)
16. Cura Palatii (the curator of the palace)
17. Comes Dispositionum (the controller of arrangements)
18. Magister admissionum (the master of admissions)


Unfortunately we don't know much about the internal workings of the consistorium, beyond the titles of those present. The Praetorian Prefect was the highest in rank, but he may not have been the 'master of ceremonies' as such - the title comes dispositionum might suggest that this minister had some organisational function within the consistorium, while the magister admissionum might have announced new arrivals or controlled access generally. The quaestor was originally the emperor's chief legal advisor and proclaimed his edicts to the senate when necessary, so he might have had a wider role as a spokesman.

Consistorium meetings would involve all of the above when they were present at court, besides various silentiarii acting as ushers, court guards (candidati, protectores), and secretaries (notarii). Plus the emperor himself, of course, when he was available.

Thank you for that re-post. Yes, I remember the list, I have a copy on file here, but I didn't know who the "Master of Ceremonies", the one who controlled who spoke and in what order.

Again. Thanks. I think I will wing it for my story.

Tom

(02-10-2022, 06:28 PM)Lothia Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't know who the "Master of Ceremonies", the one who controlled who spoke and in what order.

I notice that the de ceremoniis of Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus appears to have the Magister Officiorum also acting as Master of Ceremonies in matters of court protocol, so he would probably be your man!

Oh, very good.  Thank you for following up on that.  Is there an English translation of that available anywhere?

I am in your debt.

Ah,  ha.  I have found a copy.  It is offered for only one US dollar.  However, I don't know this site and until I do some research, I am not going to open my bank account to them since they are not based in the US.

(02-12-2022, 03:04 AM)Lothia Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for following up on that.  Is there an English translation of that available anywhere?

There used to be a pdf copy of the translation floating about on the net somewhere - I appear to have lost the copy I downloaded long ago, but I'm sure a dedicated google search could track down the source!

Might this be of help?

the evidence of Constantine Porphyrogenitus' de ceremoniis
by ZA Woodrow · 2001

http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/3969/1/3969_1485.pdf

Thank you very much.