Hi All. I'm a voluntary archaeologist working on a couple of Roman villa sites in West Berkshire UK and found this iron object whilst fieldwalking. It has been tentatively identified as the very (very) corroded remains of a Roman dagger. There are 2 rivets in the broad bit where perhaps the hand guard would have fitted like with the pugio daggers? Is this at all even remotely feasible or is it probably something a lot more utilitarian.
Thank you for your help.
Linz
(02-03-2019, 12:42 PM)Linz Wrote: [ -> ]the very (very) corroded remains of a Roman dagger.
I can't see the image - is it blocked for some reason?
(02-04-2019, 12:52 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: [ -> ]I can't see the image - is it blocked for some reason?
No I added it with the post? I can see it. Odd.
(02-04-2019, 01:26 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2019, 12:52 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: [ -> ]I can't see the image - is it blocked for some reason?
No I added it with the post? I can see it. Odd.
I can't see it either. Is that something only moderators can do?
(02-04-2019, 04:46 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote: [ -> ]Better?
Yes, indeed. It's now in the original post as well!
(02-04-2019, 05:55 PM)Renatus Wrote: [ -> ]It's now in the original post as well!
So it is - thanks Robert!
As for what it is... It's far too corroded to make out clearly, but it appears to be broken at both ends, so I wouldn't think it would suggest a pugio. But perhaps pugio experts might think differently?
(02-04-2019, 07:24 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2019, 05:55 PM)Renatus Wrote: [ -> ]It's now in the original post as well!
So it is - thanks Robert!
As for what it is... It's far too corroded to make out clearly, but it appears to be broken at both ends, so I wouldn't think it would suggest a pugio. But perhaps pugio experts might think differently?
I think its just as likely to be a tine from an old piece of farm equipment, I'm thinking a Harrower the square frame type with lots of spike thats dragged across the ground....
Definitely not a weapon. Farm equipment is my guess also. Not sure about a harrow, they seem to have been made by driving spikes through a wooden frame. No rivets involved.
![[Image: act_download.cfm?mediaid=1455&stname=large_image]](https://pilgrim.ceredigion.gov.uk/utilities/action/act_download.cfm?mediaid=1455&stname=large_image)
(02-05-2019, 08:27 AM)Dan Howard Wrote: [ -> ]driving spikes through a wooden frame. No rivets involved.
I think Ivor might be right, actually; the fragment could be the remains of an 18th or 19th century drag harrow, made with an iron frame, with the tines rivetted to it - similar sorts of tools are used today; this one uses bolts and not rivets, but the placement seems to be similar:
![[Image: 429748_John_Deere_2200-C-SHANK-41FT_6.jpg]](https://www.tractors-and-machinery.com/media/user/8/4/7/429748_John_Deere_2200-C-SHANK-41FT_6.jpg)
Thank you all for your comments. Shame but it was a very long shot! I think an agricultural origin is quite likely but I guess we'll never know what for sure. There have been a few possibly military items found in the villa field so it was probably wishful thinking and creative imagination! It's useful to have people who know to turn to so thanks.
Linz
Yes Victorian metalwork or even later, mild steel rots like crazy in the ground...
I was assuming that it was found in a context that dated to the Roman or Medieval period. I agree that it could be from a 18th-19th century harrow but not an earlier one.
Sorry only to come to this now. No - it doesn't look like part of a pugio. At first sight the long tang on the right of the piece does superficially resemble the tang of a rod tanged pugio (as it does a normal sword tang), but the rivets are in the wrong position for a pugio and the form of the piece on the left side of the image does not look like the sort of shape I would normally expect a pugio to corrode to. I am inclined to support the identification as part of a piece of agricultural equipment.
Crispvs