What's the best translation of Loricaria (as seen in the Notitia Dignitatum)?
I guy I know is using Fairley's translation who says it means "Leather Corslets" and is arguing that the etymology of the word is "Lori" and "Caria" the latter of which I'm pretty sure isn't a word in Latin, only a province. Fairley also translates Spatha as "Broadsword" and Princeps as "President" so I seriously doubt the accuracy of it.
Anyways, I'm fairly certain it derives from Loricarius, basically "one who makes haubergons". My Latin Professor says the same thing as well, but I'd like other opinions as well.
My Latin is rusty but I think the root has to be loric, not lori. It can't be abbreviated like that - removing the "c" changes the word entirely. I think your professor is correct about the word referrring to armourers.
Interestingly enough as far as I can tell Lori (genetive, from nominative Lorum) means strap.
Could "Lorica" literally mean armor of straps? Would certainly shed a whole new light on Segmentata.
well look in Varro: De Lingua Latina, Leob translation here:
https://archive.org/details/onlatinlanguage01varruoft
he is saying:
Lorica, quod e loris de corio crudo pectoralia faciebant ; postea subcidit galli(ca>^ e ferro sub id vocabulum, ex anulis ferrea tunica
translated by:
Lorica ' corselet,' because they made chest-protectors from lora ' thongs ' of rawhide ; afterwards the Gallic corselet of iron was included under this name, an iron shirt made of links.
well I have almost no Latin knowledge but I suppose that it would be pretty clear
BTW Varro is interesting in regard with many other definitions
Ah, so the term comes from the straps used to suspend a pectoral plate.
Loricaria is the feminine form of the adjective loricarius, -a, -um, meaning 'pertaining to cuirasses'. It is feminine to agree with fabrica. Its etymology is:
lorica = cuirass
-arius = a suffix meaning 'pertaining to, associated with'
Combining the two would put two 'a's together, so one is lost, probably from lorica.
Fairley possibly got his translation of 'leather corslets' from Lewis & Short, which defines lorica as 'a leather cuirass, a corselet of thongs'. It can also mean a defence of any sort, including a rampart or breastwork. Lewis & Short gives the etymology of lorica as lorum, 'thong' but also leather generally. However, as Varro shows, lorica was associated with mail long before the time of the Notitia, so to relate it specifically to leather then would be anachronistic.
Quote:I guy I know is using Fairley's translation who says it means "Leather Corslets" ...
Fairley has some very odd translations (e.g.
[fabrica] clibanaria = "arsenal of mail"), but he
was writing over 100 years ago!
And he [The guy I've been debating with for four years] thinks it derives from "Lori" [Gen. of Lorum] and "Caria" which he thinks is an inflection of "Corio" [Abl. of Corium].
Caria isn't a word in Latin, other than the Roman Province from 395-638.
Quote:And he [The guy I've been debating with for four years] thinks it derives from "Lori" [Gen. Lorum] and "Caria" which he thinks is an inflection of "Corio" [Abl. Corium].
Why combine a genitive and an ablative?
Renatus you know the guy I'm talking about. One of those people so stubborn he'll make anything up to say chainmail was absolute crap for armor and that the Romans used Rawhide because it was far superior.
Quote:Renatus you know the guy I'm talking about.
If you mean someone on another forum we both belong to, that is a debate I switched off from long ago.
Well I usually end up at it again because I'm trying to prevent him from misinforming the general public of that forum.
Quote:Renatus you know the guy I'm talking about. One of those people so stubborn he'll make anything up to say chainmail was absolute crap for armor and that the Romans used Rawhide because it was far superior.
well is good that I know I will buy next time a car made out of rawhide, iron is weaker than that
Quote:Magister Militum Flavius Aetius post=360327 Wrote:Renatus you know the guy I'm talking about. One of those people so stubborn he'll make anything up to say chainmail was absolute crap for armor and that the Romans used Rawhide because it was far superior.
well is good that I know I will buy next time a car made out of rawhide, iron is weaker than that
Well at least it wouldn't rust like the Trabant made from hardboard ;-)