I've gone back several years and searched both this board and others for the Kalkriese type Lorica segmentata. Unfortunately many of the photos and links are dead. I've seen what is on the market which is slim. I'm interested in seeing what reconstructions people have since it is open to interpretation. I've seen ones where only the chest plates have brass edging, others where all of it is edged including the girdles. Some have straps, some loop holes. Some have girdles that are completely brass with steel chest and shoulder plates. In MC Bishop's drawings he shows the chest plates edged in brass and I believe the lower girdle edge in brass. In the years since the "discovery" of this early type has there been some consensus on what they looked like? Perhaps some new discovery? Would it be acceptable to have all the plates edged in brass? I'd like to see pictures of what people are using as far as the Kalkriese lorica. Thanks.
I have only seen two Kalkriese reconstructions, one from DSC:
http://imperiumancientarmory.com/Body%20...Lorica.htm
And another from an off brand Indian manufacturer, though I can't seem to find a link. If you read over MC Bishop's notes again, only the breast and backplates for sure had brass/copper edging. Mid-collar plate MAY have had edging, and greater and lesser shoulder guards had no edging. I do not know how much of the girdle section was found, but enough that brass edging here was not speculated.
Unfortunately not many of us reenactors use Kalkriese segmentata, the majority of reenactment groups are based on Mid-First century onwards. It is very possible there that an example of Kalkriese or really any type of segmentata existed with brass edging all over, but that is opening a whole can of worms. Since reenactors are dedicated to specifically recreating something that for sure existed, not many of us are willing to "speculate". I find the Kalkriese example interesting as well, but we are unlikely to go really accept recreations until we have more evidence. DSC's segmentata is from what I have read from Bishop, the best we can do with what little we have
Imperium in California does or did offer a Kalkriese. Matt Lukes makes them, too.
Thanks guys. I've seen the one on Imperium's web site. I'd like to see some in the "Real world".
I re-read Bishop and it seems for sure that the Breast plate and probably the back plate and mid-collar plate had the trim. There was no mention of the shoulder plates having the edge but then again it looks like those pieces have not been found in tact. He also mentions that the upper and lower girth hoops probably had the edge as well.
I realize that reenactment groups strive for authenticity. Would it be a sin if the shoulder plates had the edge? How would people view a Kalkriese lorica with the edging around the shoulders as well? I've seen the picture from LEGIO X Fretensis which shows brass edging around the entire shoulder plates along with brass hoops.
http://www.legionten.org/PhotoPages/Encore/Encore.html
An end plate from an upper shoulderguard has in fact been found at Kalkriese (see discussion
here of a rather indecently hasty reconstruction) but is as yet unpublished. The sharkfin-shaped piece (which doesn't look much like
the reconstruction, which is too rounded) does have some copper-alloy edging surviving. No pieces of girth hoop have been recognised (doesn't mean they haven't been found ;-)), hence the speculation over the way in which it was fastened (although I still feel Corbridge-type tie loops on some reconstructions are a cop-out that lack supporting archaeological evidence).
Mike Bishop
Excellent! Thanks for posting those links. I read the original thread but the pictures are all missing and it is tough to understand what is being spoken of without seeing it. I see that your reconstruction diagram has rectangle shoulder plates rather than this new "shark fin" shape. I'm looking forward to seeing a new diagram but in the meantime I'd still like to see some pictures other than the stock photos if anyone has any.
Thanks Richard. I'm fairly new at this but the one in your link looks like a Corbridge B with brass trim not a Kalkriese. The hooks on the back give it away and the shape of the hinges. Also the embossed decorations. I must admit that I do like the brass trim whether you can prove it was there or not. It makes the armor look "finished". I think that is what draws me to the Kalkriese type.
Where I am looking at those curved shoulder plates in the reconstruction shown by Mike Bishop, I would think they are incorrect ie they should be swapped over left to right.
It is where I would consider the longer curve to be inwards instead of outwards to prevent any cutting action against the Corbridge A type supporting straps, indeed the whole thing just looks like a Corbridge type Segmentata with a one plate difference.
Is there an available photo of this original shark fin piece? Just wondering how complete it is or if it is that shape due to decay.
Well, since I'm the proud owner of that interpretation by Erik of the Kalkriese seg, I can
assure you the curved shouolder plates are placed both fron and rear, (which is visible on the website) and my photos, so it's not asymetrical.
The shape makes me wonder though of the images on the columns with all the shoulder plates curved.
Unfortunately I have only been given access to sketches of the new finds which he based the reinterpretation.
Thanks, I hope you don't mind I will add the pictures to this thread. Are the curves the same both front and rear or has there been a modification to the shape? The front is rounded the back more like a "shark fin".
[attachment=2473]181711120210_rrw2a.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=2471]181649120210_rrw2.jpg[/attachment]
egad, rounded? shades of Trajan's column...
