RomanArmyTalk

Hello Forum,

I have long wondered about the radical break in Roman helmet development at the end of the 3rd century. It seems pretty apparent that the Niederbieber and Heddernheim types (Aux Cav E - H) are at the end of Graeco-Roman and Celtic helmet tradition with little potential for further development. Such further development had happened continuously for the last 700 years if Junkelmann is right.
Now the ridge helmets enter and are taken over on a grand scale by the army, but their development is more or less finished already. And that seems odd! Having two or three subtypes (Intercisa, Berkasavo, and Augsburg if you wish) the helmet more or less remains unchanged until replaced.

However, is not there is missing link? I have a hard time imagining that the quartermaster of Diocletian came up with a perfect helmet to be distributed at once.
Yet the only real forerunner seems to be the Dura ridge helmet. What happened in the years 250 to 300?

Or am I missing something? :neutral:

regards

I wondered about that in this thread here - we have no dateable helmets between the Buch in c260 and the Duerne in c319. Later in the thread, Jens Horskotte mentions a fragmentary helmet found recently at Poitiers dating to 270, which appears to resemble a Niederbieber with an Intercisa-style crest, and also a possible redating of the Intercisa/Augst to 280.

There a note in one of the lesser-known sources (mentioned in Nicasie I think - don't have my notes with me at the moment!) that troops in the early 3rd century found their helmets too large and heavy, and so lighter models were introduced; the Buch helmet, and fragments from Dura, would suggest that this was not the case, but I wonder if some early version of the Intercisa or spangenhelm might have appeared around that time, and coexisted with the better-known heavier types for some decades. When the state armouries were established under Diocletian, these lighter helmets were chosen as standard: maybe due to ease of mass production?

So perhaps we might be wrong in trying to find a transitional type, and construct a single helmet genealogy when parallel lines existed. But I certainly hope that future discoveries might fill in the blanks...

Spangenhelms?

Quote:we have no dateable helmets between the Buch in c260 and the Duerne in c319.

I doubt that the new ridge-style helmets were introduced in the entire empire over a short period of time, so I imagine that Gallic-style helmets were used side by side with new helmets.

Having said that, I believe that the construction of ridge helemts allows thee to be made faster: many more piece that need to be assembled make for a higher production rate than a one-piece large bowl. New-style units will perhaps have been issued with these new-style helmets? And if so, statuys may have cause other troops to want one as well? Just speculating on that last part.

However, complaints had been uttered against the last version of the Gallic helmet - the neck plate being so large it made crouching very difficult. And since the new helmets had flexible neck guards, perhaps they were introduced sooner than we think? Perhaps as early as the mid-3rd century, when a lot of equipment needed to be replaced?

From what I read I'd make an educated guess that several types of helmets may have "slipped into use" in more and more roman units.
There are some kinda spangenhelms depicted on Trajans' column -- worn by archers.
AFAIU (As far as I've understood :mrgreen: ) the Dura Europos helmets do date before the mid-3rd cent AD.
(BTW: Interesting link:
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/pre..._63_1_6923)
As for the Augst helmet -- some do considered its find-context corrupted, -- IIRC it was found in a shallow trash-pit. Other than that it would be datable to ca. 270-280.
The helmets from Vivitas Taunensium/NIDA (Frankfurt-Nordweststadt/-Heddernheim), hitherto
dated mid-3rd century, were also found in a waste/trash-situation so that
Alexander Reis (Nida-Heddernheim im 3. Jahrhundert n.Chr) would not attribute them to a
"late" ( 250-260 AD) military garrisoning. That also means they cannot be securely dated
"late".
It comes as a surprise that according to A.Heising (Perspektiven der Limesforschung, Bd. 5,69) there has not been a special publikation/work on the "Niederbieber-Helmet" so there may come more surprises, too ?!
Facing the fact that the earliest dated burgus-type fortification at Mittelstrimmig is at
May 269 (by building inscription/dedication---- NO, exactly 23rd of May 270, as theit website says: http://archaeologie.eu/projekte/mittelst...urgus.html)we may have to admit that some changes of Roman military equipment hitherto attributed to the end of 3rd cent. AD have to be redated to the mid of that century or even earlier.
(AFAIK the burgus on the Ehrenbreitstein/Niederlahnstein has also been dated to "before
300" -- I'm still looking for more specific publications on that subject.)
A missing link ?!
Rather not.
"Earlier" Spangenhelms ?!
Yes, most probably.

Hoped to help.

Greez & a pleasant 2011 to everyone on that forum.

Simplex

Quote:Spangenhelms?

Yes, certainly Simon James pointed out (a while ago: http://www.jstor.org/pss/4198539: I think this is the article that Siggi points to, above) that something very like a Spangenhelm seems to be depicted already on Trajan's Column, on the heads of (probably, Syrian) archers. Also on the Arch of Galerius at Thessalonika.

This design may then have been supplanted by the "ridge" helmet, which can be viewed as a simplification of the Spangenhelm, and was perhaps also inspired by an eastern design (this is where the Persian helmet from Dura comes in).

Thanks for your thoughts! I hope I did not misunderstand any of you: it is suggested to consider the ridge helmets as a side-development of the Spangenhelm under Iranian influence. That would indeed solve my problem for then the ridge helmets would not just pop-up in three types in 280, remain unchanged and disappear around 450, but are linked :wink: to a greater development. (Btw., the connection between Roman and early medieval Nordic ridge helmets proposed by Simon James is far from safe)
The problem, as it seems to me, is to find Spangenhelm types in the Roman army before 300, unless we indeed date the Egyptian helmets according to James. And even if we do, what about the time between them and the Column of Trajan, which is still quite a long time?

I ask with specific regard to a Germanic auxiliary soldier in the 230ies; would a Spangenhelm be ok, and what should it look like? More like the ones on the Column of Trajan or more like the 'Egyptians'?
Btw., not only the archers of the Trajan's column seem to have Spangenhelme. Some Germanic auxiliary warriors seem to have them (upper left):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co..._XXVII.jpg


Thanks again!
Kai

You can see:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/45837970/TO-TH...-A-E-Negin

Don't forget the Venlo (ridge with Chirho ornament) and Breda (4 plate "spangen" possible Sarmatian) helmet, both already posted somewhere on the forum.

Also the metopes from the Adamklissi monument...seems there are a few spangen helms depicted there, and not obviously on an archer!

Quote:Don't forget the Venlo (ridge with Chirho ornament) and Breda (4 plate "spangen" possible Sarmatian) helmet, both already posted somewhere on the forum.

I am new to this forum, and I can't see the images in the topic where the Breda helmet was discussed: http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.html?...&id=188520 Can you show the image here please?
Also, I couldn't find a discussion about Venlo helmet :???:

Quote:I can't see the images in the topic where the Breda helmet was discussed: http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.html?...&id=188520 Can you show the image here please?

You probably need to log in on the new page? Here's the picture anyway:

Quote:Also, I couldn't find a discussion about Venlo helmet :???:

Venlo Helmet Fragment
And here's a picture from that thread (only the silver bits are original):


- Nathan

Hi 'Artem', please read my PM about your real name.

Quote:I can't see the images in the topic where the Breda helmet was discussed: http://www.ancient-warfare.org/rat.html?...&id=188520 Can you show the image here please?

I'd like to see those as well Garrelt!

What about helmets build from Lamella?
Or just an arming cap with a mail or scale coif worn over it.
Or helmets entirely made of leather?

Quote:What about helmets build from Lamella?
...
Or helmets entirely made of leather?

Do you have any sources for their use in Roman army?