Hi Folks, I just recently purchased a subarmalis from Kult of Athena, manufactured by DSC.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?...Subarmalis
Its a solid product, well made.
Its made of linen. I am looking to dye it perhaps, although I have seen some posts here that seem to indicate that not a lot of Roman linen, found out in Egypt and others places appears to have been dyed.
So two questions here.
1. Is dying it appropriate?
2. If I do attempt to dye it with RIT dye, anything I need to take in consideration such as using salt and other methods to avoid dye weeping. Will the stitching dye with it? I dyes a linen tunic green once and the thread I used was synthetic and failed to have the dye take. I have since corrected this on that tunic. has anyone attempted to dye/color one of these tunics?
I do have a way to test dye a small piece I think, but if the experience is already there, would be great to skip this step.
thanks much
Hello there,
i have one of these DSC subamrous too. I am pretty sure however after studying mine, that they are calico cotton rather than linen. There is little difference between the two when they crease. They are excellent value for the money and very hardwearing. They would be quite difficult to dye evenly accross the whole garment with natural dyes, so therefore i'd recommend against using plant dyes in this instance (cost would also be high considering how much of the raw material you would need) The issue with dyeing up bulky garments such as this is that you would need a lot of space and probably a large old enamelled metal bath and space to put one of those industrial propane gas burners under the bath.
I use a large open fire and an enamelled bath on stilts to dye large pieces of cloth the more space you have to do it, the better. For the sake of potentially ruining your subarmour, I would go for a synthetic dye such as those in the 'idye' series. They won't be as blotchey and they save time. There are a range of colours available and they are easy to use. I would also consider using an 'idye poly' as the thread used to stitch these is almost certainly a cotton/polyester mix. The poly dye is made for mix fibres. You will need salt for the poly dye as a mordant or white vinegar for the 'idye' - as this is specifically for 100% natural fibres.
You can also soak the Subarmour for 24hours beforehand in a large bucket with dissolved Potassium Alum crystals. This will add an extra layer of mordanting which will allow the pigment to 'bite' into the fabric. You will need quite a high temperature for the dye to pickup effectively due to the tightly woven nature of the fabric.
In fact, I've just decided to add embroidery to mine rather than try to dye it... There is written evidence for the use of embroidered parade armour.. so I decided to make that a talking point rather than just the overall colour of the garment
The description on the Kult of Athena page says it is made of cotton. Overall the form looks fine, though.
I think dyeing it will be tricky. Cotton dyes well, unless it is treated with some sort of sizing. A pre-washing should take care of that, but you may run into shrinkage problems. Also, the padding will soak up a lot of dye, so you will need to use more than for a tunic, and there could very well be blotchiness. Gonna take forever to dry, too!
Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if it bleeds dye for years, especially if the padding is polyester.
It's generally a lot better and safer to dye cloth before the garment is made! And back then it was common to dye yarn before weaving, or even the fiber before spinning ("dyed in the wool").
Overall, I'd say it would be less trouble to cover it with a layer of colored linen. You may be able to remove the pteruges and dye them, same color or a different one. Or just leave them white.
Choices!
Matthew
A while back I saw a pic of a subarmalis reconstruction that had leather on the sholder areas. This makes sense since armor can rub away the fabric. The reconstruction was based on a found piece and had some decoration on it. Perhaps one of our members remembers this and can dredge up a picture.
The inference is that the subarmalis coud be worn as either light protection, or for duties where full armor might not be necessary, but wearing one would indicate the wearer's status. Guard duty or something.
Ralph
Any evidence for this kind of square quilting for Roman subarmalis?
I only remember vertical quilting from the pictorial sources.
Armatentaria carries a variety of DSC subarmalii. I assume they can be ordered in any color
combination you like.
[attachment=162]subarmalis1.jpg[/attachment]
If you use synthetic dye, it probably won't bleed too much - cotton does take up the dye much better than linen anyway.
Mat's right - if the padding is polyester, then you might have some issues...
Otherwise, heat, extra pre dye mordanting and prologned time in the dye bath would be just fine. If you stick to those principles - and remember to keep agitating the dye bath - then you can't go far wrong.
Dan from Britannia dyed his and it turned out ok.
[attachment=164]Centurion.jpg[/attachment]
This is all great and helpful to know.
I wear hammata as my armor of choice and after trying it on today with a full size tunic, it fits great but its obvious that it will not stay white long
even with washing it in the washing machine. Which I did once already and it washes just fine.
The padding is not cotton or linen, its some type of synthetic material, so I am leaning to leaning to leaving it as is.
I have one from Armamentaria on the way. It is described as "linen and felted wool". I have been made to understand that some of the subarmalisis out there have foam rubber padding. Wether this is true or not I do not know.
I will give an update on mine when it gets here, which should be this next week.
Ralph
My subarmalis turned out to have pink poly-fiber or some such padding on the body area. It shows through the outer layer of fabric. Decent fit, but it would have been just as easy to use wool instead of a synthetic, and then a bit more accurate.
I removed the zink coating from my hobbit mail, and scrubed it with a wire brush and oil. I finished by rubbing as much of the oil off as I could, but there will always be some left.
I got the natural color subarmalis, which will show stains and leftover oil, rust, and such from the hamata which is what I wanted. I doubt Roman troops in the field were pristine. The rubbing of the subarmalis against the mail helps keep the hamata clean and does cover up the pink filler. Mail tends to be self cleaning when worn. If the subarmalis gets too grubby, I can clean it, of course.
Ralph
Hey Mike,
I actually bought one of these subs from Rusty when he sold them as a prototype. And having done that I was considering buying a second one.
The one I got from Rusty had a thick layer of synthetic foam padding in it, so I removed that and remade the entire garmet using wool quilters batting for the padding and it worked out dreat, actually took some the bulkiness out of the garmet. I also added some fringe to the pterugies, as I'm using mine for my officers impression now.
But let me know how the dying turns out because I was thinking of getting a second one and dying it a deep burgandy color to simulate a more period correct purple, as opposed to a modern true purple. (I secretly want to have an alternate impression of the emperor Titus)
I will say that I was also considering buying their leather sub. Does anyone have feedback on it?
@ Magnus per his question. Ummmm.... I don't know... If you need a specific color and have a build that will not accomodate "off the shelf" then the answer is yes, it is worth it. If I had to do this over I would have gotten one in a specific color. Mine is the same color as Kult, and the measurements I sent were off just a bit from what I got.
If you can wear an "off the shelf" and don't mind the color it comes in the answer is get one from Kult of Athena. If you want the grubby look and want to show stains, and use, go with the Kult one.
Armamentaria usually has good products that are well thought out. My manica, as an example, much better than Deepeeka, in my opinion. They ship quickly, and the belt plates, buckles and things like that are better than I can find in the states.
One problem is: who is still in business? I think some of the vendors in the Marketplace section are no longer there.
Ralph
I have had the best success dying using RIT dye with SALT. I would do it with salt for sure. (Just my 2 cents)