RomanArmyTalk

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Has anyone read the 1964 historic novel by Gore Vidal entitled JULIAN. On the web I found good reviews both artistically and historically. It is considered one of Vidal's most important books and he worked 10 years on it.

I read it maybe 15 years ago & remember being very impressed. Gore Vidal is one of my favorite writers, though he has some rather quirky ideas. I knew nothing about Julian at the time I read it, and I must admit not much more now (my real interest ends in Roman history with Diocletian), so I can't speak to its historical accuracy. I need to broaden my horizons into more modern times (ie, the 4th century) -- perhaps I'll read it again. 
 
best 
 
jjh

I, too read it a long time ago, and it was good. Vidal always does his homework, but he never lets it get in the way of a good story! Salve, 
Triarius 
One of the pack, maybe. One of the herd, NEVER!

Vidal captures the atmosphere of the era perfectly in this well-researched, easy read. Follow it up with the Penguin classic THE LATER ROMAN EMPIRE by Ammianus Marcellinus 
("the last great Roman historian"). These two are well worth 
the pittance you'll spend at, hmmm, Bookfinder.com for 2 good used copies. Julian, to me, has always been of the more interesting & human, emperors. 
Happy reading!

Thanks, I will get the Gore's book ASAP and, once finished, I will write a few words of review. I am very interested in the late empire and it is a shame others have a prejudice keeping them from reading about those times, which were full of interesting events. 
Ciao

"I am very interested in the late empire and it is a shame others have a prejudice keeping them from reading about those times, which were full of interesting events." 
 
Life is too short to study everything interesting, doggonit! I agree entirely with your assessment of the late empire being an interesting time, in fact, I think it is an understatement! 
 
 
Salve, 
Triarius 
One of the pack, maybe. One of the herd, NEVER!

Hi guys. 
I got Gore' Julian finally!!! 
 
Ironically the Italians just published it for the first time as Gore Vidal has become "popular" recently. I was three times in the USA this year and did NOT find it! Many books of Gore Vidal but I was always frustrated not to find JULIAN. Then the day after I returned from my recent visit (a week ago) I walked into the first Italian book store I came across and there it was, in the new book section! I thought I was hallucinating and started laughing. 
 
I immediately started it and am about to finish. It is a wonderful book. I might write about it later. For the moment I wanted the Italian RAT members to note that the book is out and warmly suggest you buy it. Warning: very little military stuff but great reconstructions of environments and personalities. The christians are quite harshly treated. I also had several good laughs and a few points were I really stopped to think, like a good book should make you do now and then. Now-a-days the style is to make the reader turn pages at very high rate, risking igniting the pages. This book is easy to read, not at all "intellectual"; I plowed thru it too but there were moments when I lowered the book not because I was tired but because Gore Vidal actually touched my feelings. I don't know if you now what I mean...

I thought the book was an excellent portrayal of the emperor and his shaky survival of his cousin, Constantius' reign. I was a little disppointed in the military action. Too many times battle are relegated to the fictional Julian's "other" works and Gore limits himself to battles covered by Ammianus. I think fiction is a great way to "fill in the gaps" of our historical knowledge, of course not with history but with palusible fictional events that fit into the history we know. 
 
I'd recommend Julian but I prefer Ford's Gods and Legions for a fiction book on Julian oriented on the military side.

I've just started that one. How would you rate it? 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert 
 
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]FECTIO[/url]

I recommend Gods and Legions as a good read. I thought it was similar to Julian but had more depth to the military side of his accomplishments than Vidal's book. I thought Ford's Ten Thousand (about Xenophon's march) a better story but Gods and legions was close.

At half-way now, I can see that Ford did a good job following Ammianus Marcellinus. Not too much psychological depth of the personages though. 
Some anachronisms occur. I think we can safely dismiss the writer's (Caesarius) constant referral to the Germans a 'enormous', wielding 5-foot weapons etc., as a mere exaggeration. The 'thumbs up' and 'thums down' in the circus are more worrying. 
However, when he has Julian wielding a 'curved scimitar', and refers to the infantry as wielding 'our short swords', then I fear that the author (Ford) simply has not done enough reading, so his actual knowledge about the Late Roman army fall embarrassingly hort. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 8/1/03 3:20 pm

That book has created the common misconception that Julian was killed by christians; something the evidence simply doesn't support!

I’ve just finished Gore Vidal’s Julian, so decided to dust off this old thread for my review.

I thought the structure of the novel was interesting. It consists of a first draft “memoir” of Julian, along with his “diary” from the Persian expedition. In addition, it has two other narrative voices: Libanius and Priscus, who write twenty years after Julian’s death. They bicker between themselves and comment upon events Julian describes, expanding upon events and sometimes disagreeing with Julian’s version.

As one would expect, there is a lot of information on the pagan – Christian theme. Today, some 1,700 years into a Christian-dominated Europe, Julian seems to us a bit of a fresh rebel. Of course, during his life he was exactly the opposite: a conservative fighting against change. Unfortunately this doesn’t come across well in the novel.

I was a bit disappointed with the scene where Julian is crowned Augustus in Gaul. It was quite lacklustre and anti-climatic. I was also surprised that Gore, an excellent writer, fell back upon the terribly lazy As You Know trope. (I hate that!) But the book is some forty years old and perhaps that wasn’t so common when he wrote it.

It wasn’t the best historical fiction I’ve ever read, but I really enjoyed it. I didn’t want to put it down. And what is probably the best indication that it was a good book: the minute I finished it I picked up a real history book (Gibbon, in my case) to read about Julian and that era. Recommended!

Quote:That book has created the common misconception that Julian was killed by christians; something the evidence simply doesn't support!

Frankly, there was no evidence then, there is none now, just that the javelin that killed him was Roman, and that noone on the Persian side admitted to killed him.

Ford's book is peculiar. The protagonist, Julian's doctor is a strange choice, because he looks with disfavour on Julian all through the book. Strange. Also there are mistakes everywhere. eg. Dura Europus, a ruined city, he mistakes for a city recently abandoned by Romans fleeing the immediate war.

Personally,I've written a novel about the Persian expedition, about a boy who joins up and experiences the whole thing. I won't give the plot away, though ... it includes much of the action in Ammianus, but looks at it all from the level of a young miles in a minor legion (the First Isaurian). Still trying to get an agent to represent it, though. Waiting to hear at the moment ....

Confused

hock:

Good luck with that! If you need someone to proof read it - I'd be happy to volunteer!

On a similar note, is everyone aware of the online novel about the siege of Amida - available here:

http://pineapplepubs.co.uk/

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