RomanArmyTalk

the 1 Cohort wedge as advised by Sir Mortimer Wheeler in 1972 illustrated by Peter Connolly;

[attachment=10076]1972wedge_edited-2.gif[/attachment]

That looks a little bit too "neat and tidy" to me. Anyway I don't think the wedge was the century's natural formation.

I guess it goes back to where was the regular position of the centurion. He would probably start the battle in the front rank and right flank of his unit. But after a while and a couple of periods of intense fighting followed by lulls, it might be necessary for him to take a spot just in front of his century and lead it toward the ennemie. That's when a wedge-like formation might appear, but it would be more of an informal kind of formation.
I guess at that point the men would not necessarily be at their original spot in the formation. The more eager would form the front rank and follow their centurion closely, the tired (physically and psychologically) front rankers might let themselves filter further back in the century. Whereas the legionaries that started further back might now be looking for an opportunity to score a kill to release their tension, and therefore try to get a spot in the first two ranks. The men on the side of the formation probably had a tendency to go slower to cover their flank and more easily see where their centurion is leading them.

At least that's how I'd try to describe it if I were writing a novel set in that timeframe^^

Here's a little sketch I tried to test a simple drill theory. The unit advances south-north (y axis), but the individual only fights east-west (x axis).

Frame 1 The wedge is one tooth of the saw with Mr Green on point, Mr Blue is directly behind him and the sides of the tooth are nicely angled to receive the baddies whether the Roman force moves into them, or the Roman force remains static as the baddies fill in the white space funnels between the "teeth".

Frame 2 Mr Blue pushes into point position, or is pushed by Mr Red behind him. Mr Green takes a simple step to his left along the x axis to make space and is therefore a little bit closer to the adjacent saw tooth.

Frame 3 Mr Red is pushed forward to point, Mr Blue steps to the right along his personal x Axis, a mirror of what Mr Green has just done.

Frame 4- 10 process repeats, unit moves along the y axis by virtue of many little bursts of energy on point. As long as the tooth edge is held, troops in the funnel behind can be in any order or disorder as long as they are fired up for the moment they burst through on point having discharged whtever missiles they can into the opponents funnel. The guys at the back of the funnel are always compelling the guy in the number 2 position to go on point as they press forward out of harms way (relatively). Any casulaties on the tooth edge are automatically filled by the press from the funnel.

Frame 11 when Mr Green gets to the end of the tooth his progress has been from ferocious assualt on point to deminishing resistance and can now retire into the funnel to catch his breath, get another pointy stick to throw and repeat the process.


[attachment=10074]wedge-gif1_2014-06-02.gif[/attachment]

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Sorry - missed half the thread by accident....
And now I see Dithyrambus has allready mentioned this....

But the Vikings were known to use roughly the same formation, the "SVINEFYLKING" (Pig-head) to attack thin lines of defenders/ weak opponents - with the purpose of a quick breakthrough/enemy rout. Apparently the largest Vikings would be in the front, center. If used in the right situation - the result must have been immediately and very devastating for enemy morale.

I understood the viking version to essentially be a ram. Whilst this could be an effective small scale tactic of shock I think taht whilst the raomn Army may have deployed this on occassion seems a more prolonged controlled drill would make more sense.

dan Snow did a comedy wedge in he Boudica episode of Battlefield Britain (on YouTube) unintentionally ruling out the wedge in my view.

Quote:Vikings were known to use roughly the same formation, the "SVINEFYLKING" (Pig-head)

Quote:I understood the viking version to essentially be a ram.

It seems the Roman version was effectively the same, and even went by the same name in the later era:

A wedge (cuneus) is the name for a mass of infantry who are attached to the line, which moves forward, narrower in front and broader behind, and breaks through the enemy lines, because a large number of men are discharging missiles into one position. Soldiers call this tactic a 'pig's head' (caput porcinum) - (Vegetius, III,19)

Quite possibly the Roman tactic (or just the name for it?) was adopted by Germanic warriors and passed Norse-wards from there. Alternatively, the nickname could have been adopted by the Romans from their enemies... Milner's note to Vegetius mentions that Hannibal used a cuneus at Cannae.

Either way, it seems a common and effective tactic used (as other have noted above) by many armies - nothing complex or mysterious about it, just a mass counter-attack from the centre designed to split an opposing force.

Vegetius also described the 'saw' (serra), but it's nothing like the wedge:

The 'saw' is the name of a formation which is ranged by crack troops before the front, facing the enemy, so that a disordered line may be repaired - (Vegetius, ibid)

Milner quotes the grammarian Festus for an alternative to this (rather opaque) description: To 'fight in saw formation' is said when there is a constant advancing and retreating, no standing still at any time.

So the 'saw' seems to have been a mobile defensive formation rather than an offensive one.

Needless to say, however, Tacitus makes no mention of 'saws' in his description of the Boudica battle. The word he uses is cuneus, meaning 'wedge', a well-known standard Roman battlefield tactic.

Combining the descriptions of the 'saw' by Vegetius and Festus, it becomes clear that this was a formation employed in emergency and that it derived its name, not from a resemblance to the teeth of a saw, i.e., a series of multiple wedges, but from its back-and-forth motion, like the action of a saw. As such, it would not have been used as an attacking tactic against the forces of Boudica, as apparently envisaged by the documentary that provoked this thread.

Vegetius also mentions it and the wedge in Veg. 3.17, where he states that the soldiers making up these formations should be drawn from the reserves. To attempt to draw them from the line would throw everything into confusion. In his footnote to this passage, Milner cites another passage from Festus which quotes a fragment from Cato's lost de Re Militari. Cato was one of Vegetius' sources.

Quote:..................
Milner quotes the grammarian Festus for an alternative to this (rather opaque) description: To 'fight in saw formation' is said when there is a constant advancing and retreating, no standing still at any time..............

Now that is interesting; for, rather than being opaque, that would seem to me to be a perfectly succinct description of exactly how I see the 'manipular tactic' being enacted.

For what has always struck me, is that most people seem to think of more 'modern' (hardened steel) types of saw that have the, now classic, triangular (and therefore indeed rather 'wedge-like') teeth - whereas I'm thinking of the reconstructions I have seen of ancient stone and marble saws that have long rectangular indents. The resulting shape adapted to the maniple/century tactic to disrupt and break up the opposing line/phalanx makes a great deal of sense.

On the specific subject of wedges, however, is there any apparent causal link between cavalry units known as 'cuneus' and the formation?

I just ran it by someone else and he thinks I might be right. The reason I'm not posting it, is because I want to see if someone else comes to the same conclusion.

Stop thinking wedge! Think of a saw-tooth formation with lots of teeth. It makes perfect sense that it was used against Boudica.

Quote:Stop thinking wedge!

Can we do that when our best source, Tacitus, uses precisely that term (velut cuneo, 'just like a wedge')? After all, Tacitus' father-in-law, Agricola, had been on Paulinus' staff. On the other hand, what we know of the 'saw' formation indicates that it was used to retrieve the situation when the line had become disrupted and there is no suggestion in Tacitus' account that that had occurred in the battle against Boudica. As always, I am open to correction but I know of no authority for a 'sawtooth' formation. If there is such authority, I would like the reference.

Renatus wrote:
As always, I am open to correction but I know of no authority for a 'sawtooth' formation. If there is such authority, I would like the reference.

Aulus Gellius (10 9), and Vegetius (3 17) mention the serra formation (saw), but I am sure these have already been discussed.

Quote:Aulus Gellius (10 9), and Vegetius (3 17) mention the serra formation (saw).

They do - but the description given in Vegetius (quoted above) is quite different to the 'sawtooth' formation portrayed in the computer graphic reconstruction of the battle mentioned in the OP. The Roman serra was, as we've said, apparently a defensive formation or a way of reinforcing a line.

Gellius, in the extract you cite (10.9), actually lists the formations of the Roman army: "the front, reserves, wedge, ring, mass, shears, saw, wings, towers." ("frons", "subsidia", "cuneus", "orbis", "globus", "forfices", "serra", "alae", "turres"). The 'shears' or forfices'/forceps was the open V shape designed to counter the cuneus.

No mention of anything that resembled a toothed saw-edge.

Ammianus gives a number of accounts of both the Romans and their various 'barbarian' opponents being in wedge formation (cuneus). The barbarian tribes also used a variant which Ammianus described as 'dense columns'

Several uses of the Wedge/Dense Column appear to have been successful in Ammianus, the Alamanni at Argentoratum appear to have used it to smash through the Roman front line before crashing into the Primani legion behind who then routed the barbarians. Another instance was the Goths at Ad Salices who attacked one section of the line with fire hardened clubs, much as Vegetius said a wedge should do.

This isn't something that you'll find in a book. They didn't write everything down and everything the wrote down isn't accurate. I really want to tell you guys, but I also want to see if someone comes to the same conclusion. I can see them using it against Boudica. It would explain the slaughter.