It appears that at least from D'Amato's book that silvered helmets had silver sheet applied to the bowl. Today, people generally have their helmet silver plated.
Now silver, from what I know, does not plate iron well and it could even cause some problems. So how is iron silver plated? Is the iron coated with some other metal and then silver plated or..........
Any info would be appreciated
I far as i can know the galvanic process of silvering steel involves:
degreasing , mirror polishing, degreasing, adding a layer of zinc, adding a layer of copper and after that the final layer(s) of silver.
Could be a bit different because i'm not a galvaniser.
No custom bike/car shop around where you could ask this question?
I found this among many information links on the subject. Wiki-pedia seems a bit thin on the subject.
Quote:Iron Silver-Plating
I
Iron articles are plated with quicksilver in a solution of nitrate of mercury before being silvered. The quicksilver is then removed by heating to 572° F. The articles may also be first tinned to economize the silver. Steel is dipped in a mixture of nitrate of silver and mercury, each dissolved separately in the proportion of 5 parts, by weight, to 300 parts, by weight, of water, then wiped to remove the black film of carbon, and silvered till a sample dipped in a solution of blue vitriol ceases to turn red. According to H. Krupp, articles made of an alloy of nickel, copper, and zinc, such as knives, forks, spoons, etc., should be coated electrically with nickel, put into a solution of copper like that used for galvanic coppering, and then electroplated.
II
A brilliant silver color may be imparted to iron (from which all grease has been previously removed) by treating it with the following solution: Forty parts, by weight, chloride of antimony; 10 parts, by weight, powdered arsenious acid; and 80 parts levigated hematite are mixed with 1,000 parts of 90 per cent alcohol and gently heated for half an hour on a water bath. A partial solution takes place, and a small cotton pad is then dipped in the liquid and applied with a gentle pressure to the iron. A thin film consisting of arsenic and antimony is precipitated, as described by Dr. Langbein, in his "Handbuch der galv. Metallniederschläge." The brilliancy of the effect depends upon the care with which the iron has previously been polished.
http://chestofbooks.com/reference/Henle ... nd-De.html
Thanks for the replies. Just as I thought, It could not be done so easily. This only reinforces the idea that silvering of iron objects was probably done by some type of foil application in the Roman period.
I wanted to silver my helmet but it appears that I would have to remove all the glued in leather and linen padding not to mention that all the brass decoration and enamel would have to also be protected. Any brass components would not render well to acidic coniditions.
Byron, the reason I asked is because I was thinking about it for the helmet Brian made for me. Too much of a risk given the great lengths that Brian went throguht to make the masterpiece he did.
I guess, unless someone can cover it with silver foil, that it will remain in iron.
Quote:TByron, the reason I asked is because I was thinking about it for the helmet Brian made for me. Too much of a risk given the great lengths that Brian went throguht to make the masterpiece he did.
I guess, unless someone can cover it with silver foil, that it will remain in iron.
But If you want to get it covered in silver sheet, you still need to have all the decorations to be removed, haven't you? Anyway, my version of that type of helmet (a bit simpler as Brians wonderfull piece) is at a galvanic plating company right now, so I probably can show the result of such soon. (of course I was able to send it there before any assembly is done. At least I can't wait to get it back and see the result
Quote:Thanks for the replies. Just as I thought, It could not be done so easily. This only reinforces the idea that silvering of iron objects was probably done by some type of foil application in the Roman period.
And to go further about the historical version. We know that it was a seperate sheet of silver added to a lot of finds of facemasks from Nijmegen. There a thin silver sheet was glued to the iron base. Also for a lot of late Roman helmets we also know there was a seperate sheet of Silver attached over a iron bowl.
Pretty much the way Erik will do a helmet. Silver sheeting is the accurate way to go.
Byron,
His helmets are fire tinned. I do not know of any helmet on his site that has silver sheet covering it-is there? If there is, I would really like to see the way it looks.
Jurjen, I think that short of how scales would have been silvered (I doubt that the Romans covered them in silver foil) or how certain pompeii gladii would have been also silvered (fully or partially), I think that large objects would have silver foil covering them. Although, certain brass greaves that were highly ornate had silvering not sheet silver. I guess that it depended on the size of the object and the metal.
I certainly can find a silversmith here in the states that can silver my helmet using sheet silver. Who would be better than a professional silversmith?
Quote:Byron,
His helmets are fire tinned. I do not know of any helmet on his site that has silver sheet covering it-is there? If there is, I would really like to see the way it looks.
Who would be better than a professional silversmith?
Read the information on the new 'Kalkriese Gallic helmet, it states he makes it covered with silver sheet, or tinned.
will reply to pm later.....
Also, his Kalkriese belt is covered with silver sheet, and the Varus beltplates, he can do them of silver or silver sheet covered bronze.
Quote:Doc:1nksbdbu Wrote:Byron,
His helmets are fire tinned. I do not know of any helmet on his site that has silver sheet covering it-is there? If there is, I would really like to see the way it looks.
Who would be better than a professional silversmith?
Read the information on the new 'Kalkriese Gallic helmet, it states he makes it covered with silver sheet, or tinned.
will reply to pm later.....
Also, his Kalkriese belt is covered with silver sheet, and the Varus beltplates, he can do them of silver or silver sheet covered bronze.
Byron, actually I think YOU should read carefully. He states the original was covvered in silver sheet. His version is fire-tinned. But indeed (and he suggest that too) he can make a covered version as well.
"The original was covered by a silver sheet and its crest was partially gold plated. This original version requires a lot of working hours and will only be produced on special order."
This is the bit that I am refering to, which is the FIRST statement.....
You can order the cheaper tinned version if you prefer is how I read it.....Jurjen.
Hi Byron. I got the problem. I referred to the german page, where is something else noted as his english version. He doesn't mention a silver sheet version on his german page.
I was wondering if there was a translation issue maybe....but you do have me wondering if the price shown is for the silver sheet version, or the tinned one now....there is room for interpretation there.... :? roll:
Quote:I was wondering if there was a translation issue maybe....but you do have me wondering if the price shown is for the silver sheet version, or the tinned one now....there is room for interpretation there.... :? roll:
A I read the English text, I would say the price mentioned is for the tinned version.
Yeah, I think so too. (sssssss, owww, fingers burned there....)