RomanArmyTalk

ok, got my helmet.
figured a nice oval shield with wooden spine and metal boss?
what should I do for the sword, belt and armour? i know there some partial examples but nothing full. what are the sizes for the belt plates? help? hehehe

Pic of Helm Chuck 8) personaly im using a scutum from Adrian Wink & belt using the buckle & plates he has ,Mail for triarii ive no decision as to the cape closure ,Matt lukes has made me a light socketed & heavy tanged type Pila heads in the mail as we speak , & on order with Manning Imp. a bronze montifortino , spear head & bronze greaves. tunic red or white , & delos sword .good luck Dave

There's three pages of "Uhhhmmmmm..." and some definites here: :wink:
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Quote:There's three pages of "Uhhhmmmmm..." and some definites here: :wink:
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such as :!: :?:

Here's what Tom Kolb and I did:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/Qrepub.jpg

Though now I use my hispaniensis,

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/hispan1.jpg
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/Smihel1.jpg

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/rcRD28.jpg

Also an older photo, with the that old MRL Fronton style sword which we now know is too early (and no relation to the Roman hispaniensis or Mainz). Johnny Shumate's painting shows a Fronton, too.

Of course, you can use an earlier Italian style sword, IF you can figure out what it should look like, and how to make it!

The pectoral is the way to go. Tom went with a simple fairly plain one, just a scribed line border. Mine is based on one shown in Connolly, which I now expect is MUCH too early,

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/pectoral1.jpg

The way the shoulders and sides are done is more 3rd century, if I'm remembering correctly, but the dot pattern is practically Villanovan. There is some debate about shapes, with some saying the rectangular ones are all earlier, with round ones being better for this era. But then you see those nifty Samnite muscled ones! The triple-disc style is cool, too, and Deepeeka makes a decent one.

Mail is *not* indicative of a triarius. One's status as hastatus, princeps, or triarius depended on age and experience, whereas armor was dependent on wealth. It's entirely possible that the proportion of mailed men was higher among triarii, but you'd still see plenty with just a pectoral. Besides, once you've done an event in a pectoral, you'll never want to go back to a hamata again! THREE POUNDS, dude...

Belts? WHO KNOWS! I used belt parts from Numantia cuz I had to use SOMEthing... Heck, we don't even know what their shoes looked like.

My shield didn't really come out to the shape I wanted (too squarish), but I do like the all-wooden boss. Deepeeka's Republican scutum isn't bad, but the boss is HUGE.

That help? Vale,

Matthew

Quote:

Tarbicus:30gn3ble Wrote:There's three pages of "Uhhhmmmmm..." and some definites here: :wink:
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such as :!: :?:

Pretty much the first photo Matt posted, except I'd definitely face the scutum front and back with white felt. I'm also not too sure about an all metal barleycorn umbo - circular, or a wooden umbo that joins with spinae that has a metal reinforcement shaped over it and running horizontally either side onto the scutum (butterfly style). The scutum could also be covered with rawhide.

I'm also okay with wearing a more celtic/gallic style of boot if so desired. I started a thread on the subject a long while back.
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I don't think a scarf is necessary either, unless someone can point out a representation from the period showing one being worn. Triple-disc cuirass I think isn't right, but I feel okay with a metal belt beneath the simple pectoral. Otherwise a simple leather belt, or even fabric (Christian has some firm opinions about all that).

Sword is a begger:
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Definitely a greave on the left leg for me, and possibly a pair - not fancy ones, as I recall a reference to the Romans of that period being distinctive for their lack of ostentatious decoration on their armour.

Montefortino or Apulo-Corinthian helmet, but the plume holders seem to be prevalently folded and flat (assuming the feathers were tied on). The Montefortino should ideally have the T-style of reinforcement/feather holder (look on the RAT helmet database under Montefortino - plenty referenced there).

And this is where I get shot down in flames......

Yeah I wanna see more pectoral plates available...I wants one!

The metal boss on the Deepeeka scutum is like a darn bathtub. My example has the "keyhole" shaped hole cut out in the back for the handgrip...Not terribly comfortable by any stretch. I'll get around to opening it more sometime...

The spines are 2 separate pieces of wood nailed to the face of the scutum. The leather covering is done pretty well.

I've got a Montefortino from Deepeeka, has held up quite well. It came with some sort of coating, which I ended up removing to help with polishing.

Quote:The metal boss on the Deepeeka scutum is like a darn bathtub.

That's what I initially thought, but do a search for the Crimea finds thread. There's a barleycorn umbo that's pretty much those very same huge dimensions. Some pretty amazing finds include a Republican belt piece that had glass sandwiched between the front and back plates, the plates very much like the Castillejo belt fittings.

Quote:

barcid:2fy4ry2c Wrote:

Tarbicus:2fy4ry2c Wrote:There's three pages of "Uhhhmmmmm..." and some definites here: :wink:
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such as :!: :?:

Pretty much the first photo Matt posted, except I'd definitely face the scutum front and back with white felt. I'm also not too sure about an all metal barleycorn umbo - circular, or a wooden umbo that joins with spinae that has a metal reinforcement shaped over it and running horizontally either side onto the scutum (butterfly style). The scutum could also be covered with rawhide.

I'm also okay with wearing a more celtic/gallic style of boot if so desired. I started a thread on the subject a long while back.
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I don't think a scarf is necessary either, unless someone can point out a representation from the period showing one being worn. Triple-disc cuirass I think isn't right, but I feel okay with a metal belt beneath the simple pectoral. Otherwise a simple leather belt, or even fabric (Christian has some firm opinions about all that).

Sword is a begger:
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Definitely a greave on the left leg for me, and possibly a pair - not fancy ones, as I recall a reference to the Romans of that period being distinctive for their lack of ostentatious decoration on their armour.

Montefortino or Apulo-Corinthian helmet, but the plume holders seem to be prevalently folded and flat (assuming the feathers were tied on). The Montefortino should ideally have the T-style of reinforcement/feather holder (look on the RAT helmet database under Montefortino - plenty referenced there).

And this is where I get shot down in flames......

Jim thank you for your reply.a pic attached of the helm i am having copied & pila heads made by Matt Lukes,I do agree with what you say re the sword ,its a prop until i can afford a custom made one by manning Imp. here in oz, greaves on order with them are plain with leather interior .cheers dave

Quote:Pretty much the first photo Matt posted, except I'd definitely face the scutum front and back with white felt.

Yeah, if I were doing it again, that's probably how I'd go.

Quote:I don't think a scarf is necessary either

WHOOPS, good catch!! Never noticed that on him! If I had seen it when we were doing that show I would have pulled it off him. Probably he was wearing it earlier in the day under his Imperial armor and just forgot it. I don't think he had any other shoes besides the caligae. (By the way, that red crest is actually on the helmet of the man behind him.) Huh, I wonder if I could photoshop that whole image?... Nah, easier just to take a couple new photos!

Quote:Triple-disc cuirass I think isn't right, but I feel okay with a metal belt beneath the simple pectoral.

Yeah, Danno can tell us more about the geographical spread of the triple-disc and other styles. They really are cool, though! Ooo, and get matching triple-disc cheekpieces for your Montefortino... Did the Romans do the one-piece metal belt? I understood it was more a Samnite thing.

Valete,

Matthew

PS: Oh, love those pilum heads, Dave!! GOT to get me a couple of those.

Quote:Did the Romans do the one-piece metal belt? I understood it was more a Samnite thing.

The reason is there are square pectoral finds, connected by metal shoulder and side plates just like the triple-disc, but they can also came with a metal belt. We know the Romans used square pectorals, ergo......., it just feels consistent with the actual finds.

Jim could you post a picture of the finds please & has anyone reconstucted the complete set. the Idea appeals to me ,instead of the Hamata i have cheers

yes please this is great.

now for the wooden part of the pilum, should the socket be a larger block than those of 1stc? maybe of square or triangle shape?

I can't find the photo of the actual belted pectoral I'm afraid (it was from a while back online). But here's one in a fresco:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/it_samni.html

More reference, Italic (Samnite, Etruscan, etc) going up to the 4th C BC at least:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dpd/italica/armor/39-C_1.jpg
http://web-facstaff.sas.upenn.edu/~dpd/ ... index.html
http://www.royalathena.com/pages/Etrusc ... HMQ55.html
http://www.royalathena.com/pages/HelmetsWeapons.html
http://www.uq.edu.au/antiquities/roman-metalwork
http://www.uq.edu.au/antiquities/95-094
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55883442@N00/2968853016
http://www.flickr.com/photos/taimoo/296 ... 207949575/ (note the flat feather supports)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffendale/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8435962@N06/2508831570
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95316218@N00/2359938350/
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... Br4639.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiffend ... 861758942/
http://www.answers.com/topic/gladius

Im making mine square Chuck ! , a pectoral something along these lines Jim ?