RomanArmyTalk

I was wondering, since when feminaliae exist? I just know for flavian age but I don´t know, when roman legionarii used it and where at first. Maybe you can help me. Thank you, kindly regards

There is a grave stone of a late republican cavalryman on horseback wearing femenalia.

Cavalry wore them before infantry did, most agree. Auxilia often dressed partially in native costume, but I'm really talking about citizen legionary soldier. So would an Augustan soldier in cold climate wear feminalia? Or did that come about later on?

I like to think that soldiers not being foolish would very soon begin to follow the Auxiliaries in their style of dress particularly when they had suffered their first winters in the Northern provinces. Infact that may indeed have been very early not only in the time of Ceasar but going back as far as Marius.

What the heck is feminalia? Sounds like women's clothing. Not really wanting to picture Roman soldiers wearing that, lol.

Quote:What the heck is feminalia? Sounds like women's clothing. Not really wanting to picture Roman soldiers wearing that, lol.

And you don't see a tunic (on proper hight) as being female clothing, compared to modern fashion?

Ow, and by the way feminalia are snugly fitting knee-length pants and really are men's clothing.

A bit like those brown things on my legs, still working on the snug fit though!

The name, despite its modern appearance, comes from the fact that they covered the femur. They were looked down on until Augustus, who suffered from the winter cold, began to wear them. (Cleland, Greek and Roman Clothing from A to Z, 2007).

Yes, and the name is femEnalia, with an E, not an I. From "femen" meaning "thigh", NOT "femina" meaning "woman". I have a feeling that much of the hype of "Romans thought pants were girly" is due to the common mis-spelling...

Trousers are certainly nice things to have in cold weather, but they aren't necessarily essential. Before such things were invented, people did fine with tunics and leggings, and leggings were already known to the Romans.

Riding a horse is probably a different story, but I'm infantry!

Valete,

Matthew

But it´s the plural form of femen, so it could be something like feminal because there could be a contraction. I will search, but the ancient sources i found use only feminalia and i just know it as that:

Suet. Aug. 82,1:
"Hieme quaternis cum pingui toga tunicis et subucula et thorace laneo et feminalibus et tibialibus muniebatur..."

And what´s the earliest example or evidence for a feminalia of roman legionarii (not auxiliar)? I can imagine, the normal gregarii used it very soon after auxiliars but i need the most early evidence for a feminalia of one legionarius - sorry, but i really want to be sure for my caesarian soldier :roll: :lol:

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EDIT:

Now i researched and asked one friend, it should be only "feminalia" because the e in femen is short and is contracted to femin in Substantiv. Its not so seldom in Latin. I dont know femenalia as a word. It should not exist, but if it does, maybe you can help me and give some examples. Would be very interested. But archaeological literature and sources i know give allways feminalia.

Kindest regards,
Lucius Rabirius

My new wool feminalia!

So are bracae more loosely fitting pants than feminalia? I'd always thought that bracae were the pants Northern armies adopted from the Gauls or other celts.

Quote:...Suet. Aug. 82,1:
"Hieme quaternis cum pingui toga tunicis et subucula et thorace laneo et feminalibus et tibialibus muniebatur..."
...
EDIT:

Now i researched and asked one friend, it should be only "feminalia" because the e in femen is short and is contracted to femin in Substantiv. Its not so seldom in Latin. I dont know femenalia as a word...

OH! Look at that! And look at me cheerfully eating my words! Well, vocabulary was always my weak point in Latin (and those darn long marks!). I stand corrected.

I'm not sure if I'd go with trousers for a Caesarian soldier, though I'd be surprised if some of them didn't wear them. It's just nice to be warm. Leggings might do well enough.

It was my impression that braccae was a little more generic word for trousers, either long or short, but we've just seen an example of how well I do with Latin technicalities! I don't think I've seen any evidence for loose short trousers, though longer ones do seem to have been a bit baggier at least sometimes.

Valete,

Matthew

I know it may be a long shot but I recall the winter/s during the periods of Caesar'a Gallic conquest were extremely bitter. If the generals were wearing gallic clothing, and considering the personal charisma and influence thay had on these men, I like to think they were open to the idea. Seeing the heavy snowfall that you can get in europe even in these days of 'global warming' it would not be too out of the question.

Salve Velite

Feminalia lepida! Any chance of publishing a pattern?