Again my apologies. I have struck out trying to find any info on this question in the search feature.
Over the years, I have read many references to "alternative" histories wherein accepted theories are questioned and new ideas postulated. Mostly these theories have to do with human expansion and development, in some cases even parallel developments. The most commonly heard one is of the Egyptians and the Mayans and other south and central American peoples. There are many other theories of a similar ilk concerning other peoples in other areas of the world
Recently, I have reading more of trade in acient times between the mediterranian peoples and the central Americans with the theory that the Phoenicians, as the premier sailors of antiquity, made numerous voyages to the americas and may have been the precursor race for the Olmecs of Mexico/Belize.
In the course of some of this reading some time ago, I came across references to artifacts of Roman nature being discovered in Arizona or New Mexico in the 1800s ( as I recall, coins, pottery, statuary and even writings). I think the writings talked of some type of military expedition but I can't recall anymore about it nor can I recover the source but I wondered if anything else were known about such a thing.
I know that these alternative histories talk of many other groups reaching the new world befor Columbus and or the Vikings ( including my own Scots and or our fellow Irish and or Welsh) and I wonder about the possibility. I can believe the Phoenicians could have done it but I don't believe the Romans had the skills or desire to venture that far.
Again, as always, I appreciate all thoughts and information.
Cheers all,
Pict.
Thank you. After posting, I did a further search through the Internet and I did come across the articles about the bearded terracota figurine and some other information about discovery of a Roman ship off Galveston Texas in the 1800s and amphora off the coast of Venezuela along with references to coins and such found at different places on the east coast of the US. Nothing relating to my query. All tantallizing but not proof of anything.
I suppose it may have been possible that a Roman trade or transport vessel got storm tossed , incapacitated and ended up drifting across the Atlantic with or without its crew. The ship may have beached somewhere on the US coast, natives may have salvaged it and the contents carried off and further distributed over time and distance. Possible yes, probable perhaps and perhaps more probable than landings by Roman sailors.
Still something to think about.
Cheers,
Pict
All things possible.
One of our guys visited soem islands of Tahitit a few years ago for a surfing competition. He left a number of actual Roman artefacts buried in the sand.. coins and some other bits...
Did you know that they found column segments from Carthage in the S Frisco Bay? Turns out it was ballast.
Quote:Did you know that they found column segments from Carthage in the S Frisco Bay? Turns out it was ballast.
A statue hand from the roman city of Iruña-Veleia was found in a garden 15 Km away.
It is quite obvious to me that the Romans MUST have colonized New Jersey.
At least the Northern part.
:wink:
You have not read the story of the Legio IX conquest of the moon. Here is the lost picture of the first caligae print on the moon.
we built a TARDIS out of some old Scutae, some brass and copper wire, some tinned plates and a sacrificed furry animal. It's powered with deli meat with a Mr. Fusion and the access number is 42.
...been trekking all through time, you missed that memo I see... Hmmm
will have to plant that somewhere...Make sure them Aliens don't find it and try to take all the credit...again... Next time don't plant the instructions under that long-lost Trajan column armor wrapped in the properly colored tunic
(or at least make sure those aliens don't swap it for the other color on us...again...)
At one time it was thought unlikely Vikings made it to North America
until a settlement was found. There are Chinese records of expeditions to the West coast and some possible anchors found. It is possible that
Romans made such voyages but found nothing worthwhile to trade for or
conquer given the long voyage required. Little physical evidence would exist
from brief visits and any records would have been lost in the turmoil of the dark ages. Certainly no large colony was likely to have been founded.
Fresh water shortage, and ships that weren't designed for forty foot swells indicate that if Romans had managed to row out a thousand miles, they would most likely not have succeeded in crossing the Atlantic, even from the furthest SW point of Spain.
But, hey, I don't know how to sail, anyway. A thousand years or more later, Columbus nearly didn't make it for lack of water, too, and his ships were designed for open sea travel, at least two of them. The Nina was basically a large sailboat, not really a ship. I've been on the full sized replicas, and I can tell you I wouldn't be comfortable crossing the Atlantic in even the largest of the three. Yikes. Tiny boats compared to today.
The Romans had cargo ships MUCH larger than the Santa Maria, so I don't see any basic lack of technology. And if it happened to be a wine ship, no problem with running out of drink, eh?
HOWEVER---I REALLY think all these "artifacts" need a closer look. The one "Roman statuette head" from South America (?) that I remember seeing was just a lumpy irregular ball of stone, might never have been touched by human hands at all. Are any of those coins found in the US on display, and have they been positively identified by an expert in *Roman* coins? Did they really find a *Roman* ship in Galveston, or an old barge or piece of a dock? (Sorry, but Roman ship finds are rare enough that I just don't trust the average American archeologist to identify one from some chunks of wood...) Can anyone show us that those jars in Argentina aren't just from a 16th or 17th century Spanish galleon? All we have so far is a lot of hot air and hearsay.
I don't think we need to lump this in with alien visitation, but yeah, it's pretty much like "Romans in China": SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE. SHOW me, and assure me that it's scientifically valid, and I'll be willing to listen.
Mind you, that still won't justify conclusions like the book "America BC", in which the author traces the complete and very in-depth history of the Roman *Empire* in the New World! His "evidence" includes 18th century drawings of Indians wearing blankets (VERY common trade items, and a common practice), which he interprets as togas...
Valete,
Matthew
Quote:You have not read the story of the Legio IX conquest of the moon. Here is the lost picture of the first caligae print on the moon.
LOL!!! I'm dying!!!
Looks like they had developed some nice treaded tires for their moon chariots, too...
Treaded tires are much quieter. You wouldn't want to disturb the others on the moon, particularly the Man, right?
And someone left a cavalry sports helmet on Mars.