<img src="http://www.cotswold.gov.uk/museum/images/roman/genialis.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
I haven't seen this standard design before- other commets. The original is in the Cirencester museum, who also (btw) reckon that Genialis is wearing a full face cavalry ("parade!) helmet- in a battle situation- as well as a rather fine Medusa chest ornament. Whilst the pose is the classic gravestone "cavalryman trampling on defeated barbarian", it raises some interesting questions re what was worn in battle?<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>
Hi Paulus,<br>
First off: is that your picture? I'd like to put it in the imagebase if possible.<br>
Cavalry standardbearers are pretty rare in the archaeological record. Other examples are [url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/IMAGEBASE-SHOW.asp?ID=39" target="top]Carminius Ingenuus[/url], the [url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/IMAGEBASE-SHOW.asp?ID=57" target="top]unknown Draconarius[/url] and [url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/IMAGEBASE-SHOW.asp?ID=99" target="top]Oclatius[/url].<br>
<br>
And interestingly, the signae are all different. Though perhaps the Genialis's standard and Oclatius's are the same type, a roundel with streamers? <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Ave Brittanice,<br>
<br>
That IS an unusal one indeed. And if as you say he's wearing full 'parade' dress to battle, I assume that as a cavalry standard bearer he would have to have been recognizable from the rest of the cavalrymen in the line of battle.<br>
<br>
Vale<br>
NH24 <p></p><i></i>
you'll also notice that he appears to have a shield behind the 'standard' <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>
Hi,<br>
<br>
The image comes from the online museum of Cirencester at
www.cotswold.gov.uk/museu...umber=B956<br>
Unfortunately the museum itself is being refurbished, but the online image collection is pretty good. The description reads "Limestone tombstone, inscribed in latin and showing a cavalryman riding and raising a lance over his fallen enemy. He carries a hexagonal shield on his left arm and bears a staff and decorated standard, which is not of any recognisable type. The enemy is lying prostrate and is shown naked in contrast to the soldier's splendid armour. The tombstone would probably have been painted. The soldier has stylised hair and a strip of embossed decoration below his chin suggests that he is perhaps wearing a face visor (used in parades). He wears a combined breastplate and shoulder strips to which is attached a large Medusa head. His sword has a decorated pommel and is suspended high. There is also possible decoration on the scabbard. The horse's hoof seems to rest on the pommel of the barbarian's sword, which points downwards into the ground. The barbarian is lying on his shield. The harness is well delineated and is decorated with round discs from which fringed strips hang. There are circular mounts on the head pieces and the saddle cloth has a fringed border." I noticed a small b&w photo in Die Reiter Roms by Junkelmann and realised that I'd never seen a repro of this tombstone, googled a bit, and voila! To my knowledge, the only existing Roman statue that definitively shows a cavalryman in battle, in a "parade" helmet!<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Cirencester Museum dont allow photography <p></p><i></i>
Time to write them a letter then. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Jasper wrote "Cavalry standardbearers are pretty rare in the archaeological record. Other examples are Carminius Ingenuus, the unknown Draconarius and Oclatius." Definitely- although I'd also add to the list the Chesters standardbearer with a triple crested helmet from Ala II Asturum (see another thread). So- three of the surviving cavalry standard bearers all wear very ornate helmets of one description or another- Flavinus of Ala Gallorum Petriana with his tall plumes, Genialis of Ala I Thracum with his full face helmet, and the unnamed Chesters signifer of Ala II Asturum with his triple crested helmet. Makes sense to have an ornate and recognisable - and impressive- figure to rally round and follow. And also to impress the barbarians you are charging so that they run before impact!<br>
Btw, Cirencester do have an online photo ordering service - which I'm trying out to get a larger copy so that I can study the tombstone more carefully- I'll let you know how it goes.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Paulus<br>
<p></p><i></i>
That is a strange standard.. If it is one.. <br>
Either Connolly or Simkins suggested that it could be a sort of foldable signum. The two lateral branches being extended horizontally to signal deployment to the troopers.<br>
I really don't know.. It is quite imaginative. If it's a pole with streamers they look pretty rigid.<br>
But basically, as far as I know, this is what can be adequately identified as a watchamaycallit.<br>
A real one.. <p></p><i></i>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Cavalry standardbearers are pretty rare in the archaeological record. Other examples are Carminius Ingenuus, the unknown Draconarius and Oclatius.<hr><br>
Also Flavinus in Hexham Abbey who is wearing a "parade" helmet. <p></p><i></i>
How does he hold it? It seems to come from behind his left arm!<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
The horse might have had some sort of 'flag' strap or holder(fastener?) of some sort. In which case he would be able to swing his shield around the 'standard', therfore giving it more stability when riding while at the same time protecting it. Just my imagination running while looking at the tombstone. *shrugs*<br>
<br>
It's now that I was able to notice what Vardulli had pointed out earlier.<br>
<br>
<br>
NH24 <p></p><i></i>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Either Connolly or Simkins suggested that it could be a sort of foldable signum.<hr><br>
Where? I thought I knew all the Connolly ( ) and Simkins ( ) books, but I don't remember <em>that</em>! <p></p><i></i>
Can't remember, really.. Maybe "Warriors of Rome".<br>
But anyways, I just noticed something. From what I can read on Cenalis' epitaph, nowhere it is said that he was signifier, contrary to the two others in Jasper's database.. <p></p><i></i>
Antoninus wrote "From what I can read on Cenalis' epitaph, nowhere it is said that he was signifier, contrary to the two others in Jasper's database.. " Yes, you are right. In Junkelmann's book , he translates the inscription as "Sextus Valerius Genialis, Rider in Ala Thraecum, from Friesia, belonging to the Turma of Genialis, lived for 40 years and served for 20 years is here buried. His heir had this stone placed". (I'm translating from the German, so please forgive any errors). I believe "rider"= FOES on the stone, which I don't understand. But no mention of being a signifer, unlike Flavinus of Ala Petriana who is described as "rider in Ala Petriana, signifer in Candidus' turma".<br>
So- did the sculptor simply run out of space or feel it was not necessary because of the signum- or if it is not a signum, (behind his arm) what is it? Maybe Antoninus is right earlier- it is a whatchamacallit!<br>
On balance, I feel the probability is that it is a standard, but there are a lot of questions.... <p></p><i></i>