Good afternoon, I just recently signed up. My name is Dean and I am trying to do some research of my name. I am a member of the military (canadian) and was interested to find out that the name dean may have come from a word meaning commander of ten. I know that the word exists. It is hard to find out any information about it. I get switched from roman to greek and not sure where it fits in. I am also looking for (if my name (decanus if that is right) actually is a rank structure and, if so, what does it look like. Any assistance would be amazing.<br>
As I may not be back to this site for a while you may email me at
[email protected] <br>
thanks <p></p><i></i>
This actually relates to a long-standing question of mine. I've wondered if there was a specific commander for a contubernium (group of 8 "tentmates" which might be roughly equivalent to a "squad" and/ or "fire team" in modern times); could the <em>decanus</em> be such a commander? What evidence, pro & con do y'all know of that such is the case?<br>
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Aaron <p></p><i></i>
I could only find the decanus in this inscription (AE 1954, 231): D(is) M(anibus) adgredere viator / obiter sta(n)s et repausa(n)s perlege titu<l=E>um / cuius fata et manes vitam peregerunt in / civitatem Prusiada Val(erius) Titianus bb(iarchus?) decanus / num(eri) scut(ariorum) natione Dalmata vixit annos XXXXV / militavit annos XXII fecit memoria(m) Ursus / ex numero ipso pro fraternitate<br>
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Valerius Titianus was decanus in a numerus scutariorum, whatever that rank may mean. Decanus is not included in Von Domaszewski's Rangordnung (hierarchy).<br>
<p>Greets<br>
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Jasper</p><i></i>
the glossary of Sander lists the decanus as a commander of contubernium or tentparty. <p>-------------------------------------------------------<br>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings -- they did it by killing all those who opposed them.<br>
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So I saw. I wonder what the sources for that are. Anybody? <p>Greets<br>
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Jasper</p><i></i>
It's our old friend Vegetius, who seems to have been convinced that a contubernium numbered ten men. <p></p><i></i>
D'oh! <p>Greets<br>
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Jasper</p><i></i>
Bringing this old post back. In the last two plus years, has anything more be discovered about this title or rank of Decanus?
It is also mentioned in Barker's Allies and Enemies of Imperial Rome 4th edition, though I could not trace what reference he was using, though he states in his introduction that he was almost solely going off ancient texts.
thoughts?
v/r
Mike
Quote:Bringing this old post back. In the last two plus years, has anything more be discovered about this title or rank of Decanus?
It is also mentioned in Barker's Allies and Enemies of Imperial Rome 4th edition, though I could not trace what reference he was using, though he states in his introduction that he was almost solely going off ancient texts.
thoughts?
v/r
Mike
Mike, here is the orginal cite from Vegetius in his
Epitoma Rei Militaris ii. 8.13:
"Erant decani, denis militibus praepositi, qui nunc caput contubernii vocantur"
Roughly translated: There were decani (plural of decanus), who were in charge of 10 soldiers, who were now called head of messes (squads).
Elsewhere in the text he also states how each century was comprised of 10 messes.
This is the only original source I know on the description of decanus. Maybe further research into Contubernium might shed some more light. I'll see what I can dig up.
-Severus
Peter,
thanks!!
I could speculate a lot on this position, but that would be from a modern military perspective. I look forward to anything that comes up.
I wonder at the very least, each contubernium might have had either a self appointed leader, senior person or immunes. Whether or not this position was formalized or not remains to be one of many questions.
I doubt that they would act like a modern rifle squad leader though.
v/r
Mike
Robert,
I have indeed read this thread and read through it again. Many thanks.
Seems we have only one historical source for this "rank" or "position", which is Vegetius.
Was sort of hoping something new might have popped up.
Well hopefully some day we may get another Vindolanda site where some poor squadie talks about his Decanus and Optio putting him on latrine detail or where he paid him ten denarii to get out of it for a few months.
v/r
Mike
Decanus seems to be used as a rank designation in this inscription as well:
AE 1951, 30 = AE 1954, 231
Provinz: Pontus et Bithynia Ort: Konuralp / Prusias ad Hypium
D(is) M(anibus) adgredere viator /
obiter sta(n)s et repausa(n)s perlege titulum /
cuius fata et manes vitam peregerunt in /
civitatem Prusiada Val(erius) Titianus bb(iarchus?) decanus /
num(eri) scut(ariorum) natione Dalmata vixit annos XXXXV /
militavit annos XXII fecit memoria(m) Ursus /
ex numero ipso pro fraternitate
The (possible) mention of biarchus would make this a late inscription, although other text elements would fit in the 2nd or 3rd century as well.
Quote:Decanus seems to be used as a rank designation in this inscription as well:
AE 1951, 30 = AE 1954, 231
Provinz: Pontus et Bithynia Ort: Konuralp / Prusias ad Hypium
D(is) M(anibus) adgredere viator /
obiter sta(n)s et repausa(n)s perlege titulum /
cuius fata et manes vitam peregerunt in /
civitatem Prusiada Val(erius) Titianus bb(iarchus?) decanus /
num(eri) scut(ariorum) natione Dalmata vixit annos XXXXV /
militavit annos XXII fecit memoria(m) Ursus /
ex numero ipso pro fraternitate
The (possible) mention of biarchus would make this a late inscription, although other text elements would fit in the 2nd or 3rd century as well.
My latin is nonexist! Is there possible to get a rough translation?
Oh, it's something like this:
To the gods of the underworld,
Traveller passing by, stand, pause and contemplate the epitaph of one whose life the fates and spirits of the underworld brought to an end in the territory of Prusia, Valerius Titianus biarchus decanus of the Numerus Scutariorum, Dalmatian by birth, 45 years old, who served 22 years. This memorial was set up by Ursus from the same numerus for the brotherhood (in arms?).