Ave.
Another topic for discussion generated in my small part of the Balkans. Skopje has a large feral cat population, with what seems to me one of every cat type known to man. I recently learned that the locals name the short haired black and white cats ' Roman' (Rimski). They are considered to be first rate mousers and will even take on the notorious skopje rats.
So the question is,did the legions have cats? Is there any archaeological evidence for this? Did any of the archaeological reports for the camps/ forts in the UK or along the Rhine have any evidence of cats?
Regards from the Balkans, Arminius Primus, aka Al
It's fairly common to find dog and cat paw prints on Roman tile.
Here's an example from the Antonine Wall fort of Mumrills -- cat paw prints.
In case any zoologists on RAT complain that the Mumrills cat was probably a wild cat, here are some examples from the Antonine fort at Bothwellhaugh, which were definitely identified as
felis domesticus!
The Romans had an advanced civilization. No advanced civilization does not have putum-tats.
For what it's worth, one of the first Spanish re-supply ships to the New World, or from the Conquest of Mexico, listed cats as important item of supply... from Bernal Diaz I think, off the top of my head. IF the hardened Conquistedores were scratching kitty kats behind their ears, it is not a leap to the same for the Roman army.
R. Izard
I would say the first tile shows definate signs of a very domesticated, willful, and mischievious cat....the kind that these days will slowly work it's way into your news paper then lay down in it, while you are reading it.... :roll:
Quote:For what it's worth, one of the first Spanish re-supply ships to the New World, or from the Conquest of Mexico, listed cats as important item of supply... from Bernal Diaz I think, off the top of my head. IF the hardened Conquistedores were scratching kitty kats behind their ears, it is not a leap to the same for the Roman army.
I would
think they were important for keeping the rats under control, and wouldn't be the sort of cats you'd want to get put your hands near.
Or maybe as a supply of fresh meat :wink:
Good ratters don't by definition have to be vicious towards humans....
I've had quite a few cats, who were adept at taking larger, vicious prey.
Mind you, if you are worried about scratches, then yes, don't touch... :lol: :lol:
Quote:I would say the first tile shows definate signs of a very domesticated, willful, and mischievious cat....the kind that these days will slowly work it's way into your news paper then lay down in it, while you are reading it.... :roll:
Agreed. Mine always sits on the book I'm reading, or lays down right on the keyboard while I'm typing. :lol:
Ave,
Sounds like the consensus is the Legions had cats, evidence the paw prints.
So I guess the further question is then did the cats travel with the Legions or did they adopt animals in the regions they were operating in. My experience with troops is that they tend to attract small animals, children and women. Not necessarily in that order. ...and then there would be a transport issue. I am not sure the cats would happily trot along following the troops. Any thoughts on this??
Sort of trying to pin down why the locals identify this one breed of cat as Roman.
Regards from the Balkans, Arminius Primus, AKA Al
It would make sense that they would follow the legions, not because they like the men but mainly because mice and rats do. Because the soldiers are payed with grain and are sure to leave scraps and trash about, rats and mice would be in heaven in a legion camp. As a result, the rats and mice would grow accustomed to living off the legion and would learn to follow the source, and so would the cats. You stay where the food is easiest to get, and if that means following an army then why not.
But cats do like people....as well as the other benefits they get from human contact...they are capable of emotional attachments. I can well imagine cats being kept by the camp followers and their children..... 8)
I remember reading somewhere that it was actually the Romans who spread domestic cats all over Europe. The Greeks mainly had their ferrets and dogs and the rest of Europe didn't have cats at all. The Romans imported them from Egypt and the Middle East, if I could only remember where I got that from... :oops:
I've read that domestic cats first came to Italy when Cleopatra kept a household there after Caesar's return to Rome from the Egyptian campaign, but that may just be the common human urge to attribute everything to some famous historical personage. They were definitely in Italy by 79AD, because we have the famous mosaic from Pompeii of a cat pouncing on a bird. But they might easily have reached the British Isles much earlier by way of Greek or Phoenician merchants. Tell farmers that you have an animal that will prey on the mice that are eating their grain stores, and they'll want that animal. It's the "build a better mousetrap" phenomenon.
John wrote:-
Quote:It's the "build a better mousetrap" phenomenon.
....or in this case; " breed active,self-multiplying, mobile mousetraps that don't need to be baited, at little or no cost " ....what a great idea !!
There is plenty of evidence of Egyptians using cats to hunt birds etc and we used to have a Blue Burmese that was very adept at taking down large buck rabbits twice it's size, devouring everything apart from the ears and tail!.....a very strange 'gift' to be left on your doorstep first thing in the morning