At least some legions in the late Empire switched from the pilum and the spiculum to the much smaller and lighter darts called plumbata.
Do we know how widespread this change was and why it was done?
Obviously a legionnaire could carry more of the darts and in fact 4 or 5 would fit into special slots on the inside of a roman's shield which made them very easy to carry.
The downside to me would offset their value.
1. Much smaller means they are not going to penetrate enemy shields and force the enemy to drop shields. Also would assume they are less likely to penetrate armor.
2. Their weight inside the shields would tire a roman soldier faster if he ends up in close combat before he can throw all of his darts.
What do we know about the usage of these weapons and how many legions actually employed them?
Timothy, did you do a search? We've some members with great knowledge of this weapon.
Look here:
link from old RAT
I wonder if the accuracy of these weapons was their value?
Quote:At least some legions in the late Empire switched from the pilum and the spiculum to the much smaller and lighter darts called plumbata...
1. Much smaller means they are not going to penetrate enemy shields and force the enemy to drop shields. Also would assume they are less likely to penetrate armor.
2. Their weight inside the shields would tire a roman soldier faster if he ends up in close combat before he can throw all of his darts.
I didn't have the impression that they replaced the various javelin types, but they were an additional arm - Sander van Dorst's extracts from Vegetius on the other thread give a good summary of this.
They are much easier than javelins to carry in formation and can be thrown more subtly from behind the shield. I think they are designed primarily for soft targets rather than shields and would have been used en masse only against unshielded (or relatively unshielded) formations, such as light infantry or cavalry.
But more likely, I think, that they would be cast at a venture against the unprepared, by virtue of longer range and sneakier throw and perhaps mixed in with standard missiles: you can pog plumabata ballistically and quickly chuck javelins directly, which could work well if the enemy's testudo drill was rusty!
At short range, the weight gives them another role: if you have room to throw them overarm, they seem to benefit from mechanical advantage like a throwing axe, but the flights correct the attitude - we have smashed a few wooden targets that way with blunts.
Thanks for the information. The few sources I had read on it suggested that they replaced the larger heaviers javalins which made no sense.
If they were added as additional weapons then that would make alot more sense.
Timothy,
I think you mistake the value of the plumbata. To my mind, its value isn't for piercing shields but rather by being thrown in such a way that it falls down onto the troops from above like a mortar shell. They had weight behind them and a nice sharp tip, good and lethal, I'd say, esp. on unarmored and lightly armored troops.
Are you of an age to remember the "lawn darts" called Jarts? Basically they were plumbata. They were taken off the market because too many people were injured by them. As a child, my wife got one sunk into her shoulder by her little brother
hock: . Those "toys" would definitely pierce unarmored skin so I have no doubt about the value of the "real thing" :wink: .
Lucianus
Quote:Timothy,
I think you mistake the value of the plumbata. To my mind, its value isn't for piercing shields but rather by being thrown in such a way that it falls down onto the troops from above like a mortar shell. They had weight behind them and a nice sharp tip, good and lethal, I'd say, esp. on unarmored and lightly armored troops.
Are you of an age to remember the "lawn darts" called Jarts? Basically they were plumbata. They were taken off the market because too many people were injured by them. As a child, my wife got one sunk into her shoulder by her little brother hock: . Those "toys" would definitely pierce unarmored skin so I have no doubt about the value of the "real thing" :wink: .
Lucianus
Ah yes the jart. I remember a set or three of the deadly things amongst the garage toys.
Also remember as kids playing a really dumb game where we would throw them straight up in the air as high as we could just to see where they came down amongst us.
Quote:Also remember as kids playing a really dumb game where we would throw them straight up in the air as high as we could just to see where they came down amongst us.
Sounds scarily familiar :roll: