hello Igor,
thanks again, I had found Gorelik articles via Atarn website
Quote:by M. V. Gorelik
http://www.nsu.ru/aw/bookDownload.do?id=611
this particualr article, although very good, starts several centuries after the Scythians/Skify during the beginig of the 1st century AD
Have you seen the Arzan kurgan exhibit at the Hermitage or the catalog from it ?
Quote:Well, the dating of several pieces at least is final. See this short report:
http://www.ipp.phys.ethz.ch/research/ex ... 2000/3.pdf
"Absolute age: BC 260 – 250," at least for the famous Pazyryk carpet.
thanks,
that clarifies a bit the bigger picture
have you seen the Berlin exhibit of the Arzan/Tuva culture findings?
I am as usual curious about the horses, horse tack, saddles, bits, armour and swords, but I read that the entirety of the finding is amaizing in scope and artistry..
Tarim Basin finds - in this Nova film part 4 on youtube - including the saddle from 8-6c BC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTMLhPe8 ... re=related
while part 5 shows a bow - from 3rd century presumably - and various arrows - the bow has been since analized somewhat at this article
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Military/scythian_bow.htm
Some more articles for you to peruse, especially on the prickly matter of Scythian archers. Some of you may have based your Scythian costume on Greek Attic vases but a lot of recent research has shown that these images are NOT Scythians, and to copy them would be incorrect.
My Avatar is not a Scythian archer, but of Paris dressed as a barbarian from a Greek temple that has been restored. Paris appears often on Attic vases dressed like a Scythian and this has led to confusion with earlier (out of date) researchers such as M. Vos.
Here is a link of interest for you to order a copy from your library. It is one of two such articles from a terrific Scythian based Archaeological Journal.
I have other such research papers on the same subject matter and am scouring the 'net to add to the links:
Scythian archers on Greek Attic objects
To give you an example here is part of the Synopsis...
The article analyses the depictions of archers in so-called 'Scythian' clothes (a high sharp cap or a rounded hood, a caftan and trousers) in Attic archaic vase-painting. The author concludes that these figures were neither conceived as real ethnical Scythians, nor associated by vase painters or their customers with this or any other people. The clothes were rather an iconographic conventionality symbolising a second rank character accompanying a hero. The latter was depicted as a hoplite. The 'Scythian' clothes corresponded to the character's function, not to his ethnical identity. This scheme in vase-painting existed between c. 530 and 490 BC, and then went out of use, because after the Greco-Persian wars these clothes began to be associated with ethnical identity, though not Scythian, but Persian. The real prototype of the 'Scythian' archers were the archers of different ethnical groups first of Median, and later of Persian army. The 'Scythian' attire of the archers on the vases, therefore, has nothing to do with the real Scythians of the North Pontic area.
Quote:thanks,
that clarifies a bit the bigger picture
have you seen the Berlin exhibit of the Arzan/Tuva culture findings?
Yeah, it was really incredible. I was pretty lucky, though, as I went on the last day of the exhibit while it was in Berlin before it moved on to Munich and I didn't even realize that several of the most famous pieces were only going to be on display in Berlin. If you want to find some more information on the Arzan finds, I would recommend that you buy the exhibition catalogue, which is titled "Im Zeichen des goldenen Greifen." The section in the exhibotion on the finds from that particular barrow was very well laid out.
Quote:I am as usual curious about the horses, horse tack, saddles, bits, armour and swords, but I read that the entirety of the finding is amaizing in scope and artistry..
Tarim Basin finds - in this Nova film part 4 on youtube - including the saddle from 8-6c BC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTMLhPe8 ... re=related
while part 5 shows a bow - from 3rd century presumably - and various arrows - the bow has been since analized somewhat at this article
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Military/scythian_bow.htm
There are several really good books about the Tarim basin finds, including several pieces of weaponry (a few bows, that one in particular almost perfectly preserved).
By the way, one of the new Altai graves that was featured in the Berlin exhibit contained the first preserved bow found in a Pazyryk culture grave, though they only had a few pictures of it and they weren't too detailed.
Quote:Some more articles for you to peruse, especially on the prickly matter of Scythian archers. Some of you may have based your Scythian costume on Greek Attic vases but a lot of recent research has shown that these images are NOT Scythians, and to copy them would be incorrect.
My Avatar is not a Scythian archer, but of Paris dressed as a barbarian from a Greek temple that has been restored. Paris appears often on Attic vases dressed like a Scythian and this has led to confusion with earlier (out of date) researchers such as M. Vos.
Have you seen the depictions of Saka foot and mounted archers from the painted tomb of a presumed veteran of Darius I's campaign against the Saka? The palette used is quite limited, but it's still a very interesting counterpoint to the depictions of Scythians in Greek art.
Is that a girl in the armour helping you :? or a short guy?
Wow
hock: ! These arms/armour looks gorgeous!!
Reconstruction scythian panzer by M. V. Gorelik
fragment images of book "Oruzhie drevnego Vostoka. IV tys–IV v do n.e."
Wonderful stuff, Igor....great to see, and keep it coming!
More, more, more...........
And a Laudes to Marika for opening up such a Treasure trove of valuable information..... ( since I've already given one to Igor...)
Lucky person, to work with the Ashmolean collection!
The colour photos of the greave and scale armour from Grave 6 of the Nymphaeum tombs were nice...are there more? e.g. of the modified Illyrian helmet ( probably from grave 1 ) with added peak or neckguard (hard to say which)...or the bronze arrowheads? ...or the gold hare appliques? ( how cute are they !?)
Quote:Yeah, it was really incredible. I was pretty lucky, though, as I went on the last day of the exhibit while it was in Berlin before it moved on to Munich and I didn't even realize that several of the most famous pieces were only going to be on display in Berlin. If you want to find some more information on the Arzan finds, I would recommend that you buy the exhibition catalogue, which is titled "Im Zeichen des goldenen Greifen." The section in the exhibotion on the finds from that particular barrow was very well laid out.
hello Ruben,
another question - is the catalogue all in German? - I sprache kein Deutsch
-
I found it for about 40 dollars with shipping - not bad for for big book of muzeum quality pictures and academic texts...
Igor,
thanks for these images from Gorelik's book -
do you have any reconstructions of saddles and horse briddles as well?
Quote:hello Ruben,
another question - is the catalogue all in German? - I sprache kein Deutsch -
I found it for about 40 dollars with shipping - not bad for for big book of muzeum quality pictures and academic texts...
Yes, unfortunately it is entirely in German. It also doesn't include pictures of some of the most interesting new finds that were displayed in the exhibition, which is frustrating as it is the only source that I know of that features pictures of the new Arzan finds and the two new Altai warrior burials. For instance, the perfectly preserved sagaris of one of the two warriors was not included in the book, despite the fact that it was one of the most spectacular items on display from that burial.
Igor,
Thanks for posting those wonderful illustrations. This will expand my library when I need to do more Scythian illustrations!
Thanks again,
Johnny