RomanArmyTalk

Hello everyone,

My boss who knows I have an interest in Roman history has e-mailed me the message below. I have to research on it more to see how entirely truthful it is. Nonethless, it makes for an interesting story.

Here goes:

Be sure to read the final paragraph, but your understanding of it will depend on the earlier part of the content. This is amazing..

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and English expatriates built the US railroads.

Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad
tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building
wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on
some of the old, long distance roads in England , because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads?

Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (and England) for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their
wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United
States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.

Bureaucracies live forever.

So the next time you are handed a Specification/ Procedure/ Process and wonder "What horse's ass came up with it?" you may be exactly right.

Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.)
Now, the twist to the story:

When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank.
These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah . The engineers who designed the
SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The
railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel
is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two
thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass. And you thought being a horse's ass wasn't important? Ancient horse's asses control
almost everything....and CURRENT Horses Asses are controlling everything else!!

Paolo

Brilliant :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes - the only flaw is "Imperial Roman army chariots"? :lol:

Quote:Yes - the only flaw is "Imperial Roman army chariots"? :lol:

Yes, I was wondering when the Romans ever used chariots myself . . . Military wagons for the century, perhaps? Or artillery?

Re chariots - what Hollywood considers a chariot had only very limited use as a ceremonial vehicle in triumphs and processions, the same way the pope still has ostrich plume fans for grand occasions though electric fans tend to be more widespread in Vatican circles.

Sports chariots were strictly for entertainment purposes, tiny little affairs built for speed and maneuvrability.

There very likely were 'toy' chariots fpr wealthy children, judging by the frequency they show up in pictorial sources.

As to practical or military uses, while not exactly a chariot in our modern sense, there is a two-wheeled, two-seater type of carriage that shows up quite frequently in images that might just fit the bill. Its passengers are seated, not standing, and it has a box-shaped body perched over its axle rather than an open structure. But on the upside, you see it in military use. AFAIK that's about it.

Regarding the article, unfortunately it is not quite accurate. Railway gauges are indeed a pretty random affair, but not due to Roman designs.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

Bless you, Mr. Bach! That's a good link--that "chariots to railroad gauges" story has been a thorn in my side for years... Most folks here seem to realize that it's complete silliness, of course, but most other people who have sent it to me think it's for real!

A few simple points that the debunking article doesn't seem to make clear:

--Railroad guages today still vary all over the world! Anywhere from about 3 feet to 10 feet. Wider is better for stability, narrower is better for tighter turns (mountainous areas, etc.).

--Romans didn't use chariots for transport, of course!

--Roman roads were famous for their LACK of ruts, weren't they? And roads are generally maintained to eliminate ruts.

--If there ARE ruts, you do NOT want to drive with your wheels in them! Makes for a bad ride and damaged wheels.

I have heard that what seem to be wheel ruts worn into the stone of certain places may in fact be deliberately carved drainage grooves. There's a similar sort of thing running down the middle of a stone-paved stretch of road somewhere in England (or Scotland?), supposedly worn by "brake poles" of countless Roman wagons. But it turns out that the paving is 18th century and the groove down the middle IS a drain! Oh, well...

Like I said, one of my pet peeves... Valete,

Matthew

There's an even better development of this story;

The guage gave rise to the a maximum carriage/load size, in turn defining the size of tunnels, which of course in turn gave the maximum size of loads which could be transported by train. One such load being the shuttle booster rockets.

Hey if your going for a wild story, shoot for the moon. :lol: :lol:

To some extent, there is a guage matter that does apply. In most Roman cities that had paved streets, they placed raised blocks of stone to allow pedestrians to cross above the flow of water and whatever else might be IN the streets. See the streets in Pompeii, for example. These blocks were set with gaps at a certain distance to allow wagon wheels to pass through and this would mandate that wagons entering the cities all have their wheels spaced a certain distance apart.

Also Railway guages in England are not the same as in America IIRC.
Narrower I think... :?
Anyway, a funny story, but hard to believe!

Is there some reason people are mis-spelling 'Gauge' as 'Guage' ? :?

Is this some "in" joke I'm missing, or is it a comment on the education system? :lol: :lol:

Quote:Is there some reason people are mis-spelling 'Gauge' as 'Guage' ? :?

Is this some "in" joke I'm missing, or is it a comment on the education system? :lol: :lol:

Maybe it's both.. :lol: Education system playing a joke on us ? 8)

Quote:Is there some reason people are mis-spelling 'Gauge' as 'Guage' ? :?

Is this some "in" joke I'm missing, or is it a comment on the education system? :lol: :lol:

Wot r u tri-in 2 saye liyk?
AAR yoo insinyooateing thu skoolin wot I got arn't gud?

Or it could be someone at work too tired to see what his typing is churning out.... :lol:

Isn't it odd how there is no mention of the Britians chariots.

Is that 'Britains' as in "William Britains" 'toy' soldier manufacturer, or "Britons" as in 'ancient'? :lol:

Britons as in acient. I mean to say that the roads in britian would have used by the native chariots well before the Romans wagons.